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Author Topic: Does your wiring resemble this?  (Read 2584 times)
JohnEd
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2009, 02:00:47 PM »

NUSA,

When I attended Vocational High School I was in the Electrician Voc. Training Section.  I wired many a house with porcelain/ceramic and ran single conductor.  We were modern in that we used that new wire with plastic insulation.  Cutting edge!  You are right about por.  It is not beyond its useful life as a insulator after only 50 years. 

Like I said, "it had been updated by idiots maybe 4 times".  That makes it touched "by human hands", and that is giving them the benefit of the doubt.  Here is an example:  While pulling a line in to connect to a new circuit outlet my wife hollered at me that that whatever I was doing was causing the kitchen light to go off and on.  That circuit I was working on was in the farthest corner of the house away from that light and in the living room.  There were single wires in a nest in the wall where I was working and it turned out that somebody had added a splice to the original stuff.  The spliced in wire was also that vintage linen over plastic rubber.  Both splices were covered with friction tape that had given up the ghost and fell away from the two splices.  One splice was soldered and the other was just twisted together and the copper was black.    So I ripped out that wall and replaced/reran that 4 hidden circuits I discovered.  None of this should make any sense but know this for sure:  None of this is a judgement on porcelain but rather the sub specie inbred hands that have been at work in this house since 1910...98 years of remodeling and such.  Still, the original kitchen overhead light was wired to a wall outlet in the living room.  So much for the original "electrician".  Nuff said!

John
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kyle4501
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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2009, 02:17:02 PM »

DrDave, looks like they have plenty of room in that box . . .  Grin
Just don't try to put a cover in it!  Shocked
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mikelutestanski
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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2009, 04:43:48 PM »

Hello;    I believe you have to know more info about what you are looking at to make a definitive judgement about what is wrong or not wrong with the pix of the box of wires . THe stuff from India is downright dangerous and scary but that is another issue.
   I believe the box of wires  resides in an industrial plant. Witness evidence of the pipes being labelled which is an osha provision for asbestos. The wires in the box are of various colors and labelled using sleeves which are usually computer generated.
    The wires may be for a machine or process requiring limit switches, pressure switches, or other electrical signals which are of low amprage rating but signify a contact closure or whatever. This box cover may have been left off whilst troubleshooting or checking wire signals or whatever.
      THe pix may be a find during an osha inspection and would appear in a report. When we had an osha inspection we generally had a crew working the nite shift repairing any finds and by the next morning we presented a pix of the repaired item which was usually enough to have the offense struck from the list. Osha will allow corrective action if done promptly.
    Without more information I cannot definitely ascertain if the electrical code has been violated. THe fact that the box is uncovered is a problem but that is only a  missing cover offense. Without more of the picture to show how many boxes are there and the exact size a correct wire count is not possible. The boxes appear to be industrial 4.25 square boxes. 
    If this was a new installation I would have designed a larger box with terminal strips for interconnection. However in some cases if the boxes would never be accessed again this design is adequate.
    So again with only this picture and without more info it is a guessing game to know what the actual problem is.

   
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2009, 04:50:59 PM »

Dammm, who got a picture of my inverter/genny/shore power install? That's not fair!
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Eric
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 04:54:12 PM »

Tell me that doesn't resemble every Redkneck RV "Upgrade" you've ever seen....
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mikelutestanski
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 05:03:55 PM »

RE  knob and tube wiring;
    I also studied and practiced knob and tube in vocational school in the 50s. We had to wire up a house and apartment using a set of cublicles and practiced with each wiring system incuding annunciators and buzzer systems etc.
   Knob and tube was probably the earliest and the wires were usually paper covered with some impregnation and a black or white covering. Splices were twisted, soldered and taped usually but not always. Of course as mentioned any modifications to the system made by untrained personnel led to problems.
    As early as the 60s the problems we encountered was that anytime you worked with the wire the paper disintegrated and fell off creating a problem. The fixture boxes were very shallow usually 1/2 inch and any distrurbance in the box led to major problems and probably replacement to a more updated wire such as romex and rework boxes.
     The services in those homes were usually 60 amps and more often than not pennnies were found here and there as a fuse.
    The hardest problem was to convince a homeowner that they needed a new service when they added an AC unit or a heating system or whatever.
     I can say that after a few jobs of losing my shirt because of old wiring I refused to quote and went to time and material. I lost a few jobs but not my shirt.
       Technology is a wonderful thing and like any industry wiring and standards have improved so that we can use more power safely.
       just a few thoughts from an old man who spent a few years doing this kind of stuff.
          Regards and happy bussin
        Mike   
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
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belfert
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 05:31:47 PM »

There is almost no way that original mess of wires is going to meet code for space required unless they can count space in all the electrical boxes stacked together.  I find it hard to believe the cover would even fit on the box, but maybe it isn't as bad as the photo makes it look.

The inspectors don't/can't inspect everything.  I wired an addition to my house and the rough-in inspection lasted all of 30 seconds.  The inspector took a glance around, signed off, and left.  I think he could tell by looking at just a few things that I knew what I was doing.  I don't cheat anything on electrical as I don't want to deal with a fire.

The house I demolished had knob and tube originally.  The neighbor who owned the house for his daughter in the 70s or 80s had the house rewired as previous owners had made all sorts of dangerous changes to the wiring including extension cords in the attic.
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2009, 07:38:52 PM »

OK, OK...

That picture came in a funny email titled

"why women live longer than men "

The other pictures in that email also would make most people
go "What??? Were they thinking..."

It was meant as a funny.. Not a requirement for a disertation/defense.

You guys are way too serious sometimes... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Len Silva
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« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2009, 06:16:33 AM »

Mike and John,

Interesting that we have similar backgrounds.  I too learned knob and tube and "three wire return call systems".  I now own an older home in St. Pete and here all knob and tube wiring must be physically removed in order to get insurance.  People selling older homes are faced with that all the time.

It's interesting that in the south, vocational education is perceived as a dumping ground for kids who can't make it in a "real school".  In New England, where I was raised, it was a source of pride and instant employment on graduation.

Len Silva, New Bedford Vocational High School, Class of '61
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mikelutestanski
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« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2009, 10:34:07 AM »

Hello Len:
     Just to let you know: 
     Mike Lutestanski  class of 1961   Academic electrical.  Girard College school for fatherless boys Phila. Pa ( Grades 1 Thru 12). Mornings we had regular classes and afternoons we spent on the shop of our choice or business.  obviousely my choice was electrical shop. And yes I had several offers to work with contractors after school but the jobs were in Phila pa and my girl was in upstate NY so I moved north. 
    Not know ing any better I thought vocational arts were another part of the system.
    When my son wanted to take Air conditioning and refrigeration at Mecico Ny high school in 83 we signed him up in june with the guidance counseler. In the fall when he went to school he was not even in any shop class (BOCES) is what it was called.  I saw red and blue and when I confronted his counseler and his response he said " your son does not need to go to BOCES and I thought you would change your mind so I did not sign him up.    For the first time in my adult life I was seconds away from arrest as I pulled back and made to grab his shirt acrross the desk.  My son and wife came to my rescue and we left after he knew my thoughts. Lucky for us and my son the Refrigeration instructor figured a way to allow my son into a class. THey usually taught AC in the first year and refrigeration in the second year.
     When my son graduated he had won the VICA championship competition in the state and had gone on the the national VICA competition in louisville kentucky and was ranked in  the top five in the US that year. He later went on to get his degree in AC and related studies. 
    SO I know what you mean about discrimination toward students and voc ed.
     Anyway thanks for the memory:   Probably TMI for most of you but us old timers like to ramble...
   Regards and happy bussin    Mike
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
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