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Author Topic: Goodyear Tires  (Read 6309 times)
WEC4104
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« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2009, 12:00:02 PM »

For those who might be interested, Goodyear's website is currently showing a rebate promotion on the G670RV tires.  The rebate amount varies by tire size. For the 315-80R22.5 size, you get the top rebate of $80 per tire (no limit). Offer runs until July 31st.
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« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2009, 01:07:38 PM »

I'm sorry Bryce and Niles, that I didn't make clear that I bought my Goodyear 670's in June of 2005.

However, as usual I did a lot of research before buying my tires, and Wingfoot was better than $100 per tire cheaper than anyone else in the Denver/Springs area.

When I called Wingfoot, the guy asked who was calling. I said "Jay from Calhan", and I believe he thought I gave him a business name.
After we went through all the pricing and I set up the appointment to go in, he asked again what the business name was.
I said I didn't have a business, but my name was Jay and I was calling from Calhan, a small town 30ish miles east of Colorado Springs. LOL
He hemmed and hawed for a minute, then I guess he figured out how to cover his end and told me when to come in.

On the day/time of my appointment he was really cool to deal with, and Wingfoot is about as fine equipped a commercial truck tire shop as I've ever seen.
Spin balance is no problem and makes the ride so sweet! 85 feels like 35!

The guy who changed out the 6 tires on my bus didn't weigh more than 135 pounds, but could flip and spin a tire/wheel combo that outweighed him around like it was nothing...I reckon it wasn't his first rodeo.

Once it was time to settle up is when Wingfoot really started to shine. He gave me a packet with a history of each of my tires, once they left the factory, and any distributor they may have stopped at along the way to me. It also included a detailed inspection report of each tire, and the tires are also registered into the Wingfoot/Goodyear system, so any Goodyear dealer in the US will have warranty info available.

I don't recall all the tire perks that  came with doing biz there, but it was easy to tell Wingfoot has a lot of commercial accounts, and will do what it takes to keep them happy.

HTH

Good luck!

Jay
87 SaftLiner
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WEC4104
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2009, 03:32:38 PM »

Okay, so I've been reading this thread and the multiple mentions of the G670 RV tire.  I must admit I've never given much thought about switching to a metric size.  But I just know that whatever I buy will succumb to age and UV sidewall cracking before I ever wear the dang things out. The possibility of a special tire compound to resist weather aging sure sounds good on paper.

Next comes the pricing discussion and TomCat's 2005 pricing reference.  Well even allowing for some "price growth" (thank you OPEC) these should still be in the ballpark, right?

Well I spent a little quality time with my web search engines figuring somebody has to have rough prices posted.

I came across this site with a big spreadsheet of tire models and sizes (dated march 2009) at...

http://www.sullivantire.com/GoodyearDunlop.pdf

I start looking for 11R22.5 prices for various models. I see a half a dozen models, including the G149, in the $380-$450 range.   Not surprising.

Then I scroll down to the 315-80R22.5 in the G670 RV at $757 each. I just about threw up on my shoes.  No wonder Goodyear can hand out the $80 rebates.   Admittedly these are load range L, which I think is all they make in that size, but good heavens, man.
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2009, 07:09:20 PM »

After spending two days on the phone and internet, the best price I could find for 12R22.5 tires is the Toyo M111Z at $480 per tire which includes FET. Mounting, balancing, and new stems is $20.00 additional per tire.

I came across an interesting data sheet on the percentage of replacement tires organized by size. The data sheet was published in March of this year and the 12R22.5 accounted for only 1.2% of all tires sold.

One other thing I found confusing was the variation in the manufacturers stated tire diameters. In comparing the major brands, the variation ranged from 42.6 inches up to 43.0 inches for the 12R22.5. Toyo's M111Z is 42.6 inches and the Goodyear G149 RSA is 43.0 inches.

Does anyone know if the variation is real or is it due to how the manufacturer measures their tires?

If the the diameters are really that different wouldn't the Goodyear give a little bit better fuel economy?

I will check prices outside of my home area (Tampa, FL) and see if there are better deals. It would be a good excuse to go for a drive.
 
 
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2009, 07:51:28 PM »

The range is diameter difference 0.4 inches is real, but it usually has to do with differences in tread design and depth.  Keep in mind that this is only about a 1% difference in diameter, hardly a big factor in your mileage.  There could easily be that much difference in the rolling resistance from one tire model to another.  Other than making sure that all tires on the same axel have the same diameter, I wouldn't sweat the minor size difference between brands.
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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2009, 08:09:25 PM »

Paul,  I know where you can get a better deal on the Toyo's M111z may be to far of a drive for you anyway it is Lewis Bros Tire in Baker City Or. No sales tax,and if your casing are recapable they will buy them from you.I have used the M111z for years and never had 1 fail the only problem with the tire if you run it low of pressure it will cup I did that on the last trip because of a faulty air gauge. FWIW the M111z is a Japan made tire        good luck
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Sean
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2009, 10:43:27 AM »

Comparing 12R22.5 tires to 315/80R22.5 tires is about like comparing 11R and 12R tires -- these are completely different tires, made for different applications.  Of course you can not expect prices to be comparable between them.  The 315/80 is not a metric equivalent to the 12R, as an earlier comment might lead one to believe -- it's a completely different animal.

FWIW, the only reasons you should be looking to change from the 12R to the 315/80R are
  • if you are already very close to the load and inflation limits for the 12R on one or more wheel positions
  • if you spend a lot of time off the pavement in very soft surfaces, and you need the extra footprint and lower inflation pressure that the larger tire will offer.

Note that the 315/80 is not guaranteed to simply fit your bus if it was made for 12R.  The 315 is a significantly wider casing, and it may rub on your tie rod ends, scrape your wheel wells during tight turns, or interfere with other suspension components.  Also, the 315 is made for a 9" rim (although some manufacturers will approve their 315's for an 8.25" rim), whereas the 12R will fit either 8.25" or 9" rims.  Most older coaches made for 12R tires are equipped with 8.25" rims.

Since the 315 is a much beefier tire, made for very heavy applications, you will find the vast majority of these tires are speed-rated to 55mph or sometimes 60 or 65mph.  This is because the centrifugal forces on the very heavy belts become enormous at higher rotational speeds.  The very few tires in this size with 75mp speed ratings thus have extra reinforcement, adding significantly to the cost.  I think you will find that 75mph-rated tires in 315/80R22.5 are all similarly expensive, and there are precious few of them.

Also note that the Federal Excise Tax (FET), which is assessed on every new tire sold, will be a good deal higher for the 315 as well.  FET is based strictly on the tire's maximum load rating, in pounds.  The rate is nearly ten cents per every ten pounds ($.0945, to be exact), and since the 315 typically has a load limit 2,000 pounds greater than a comparable 12R, you are looking at an additional $19 per tire just in FET, over and above the extra cost of the tire.

Lastly, the 315 is a great deal harder to find than the 12R, which is a much more common tire, contrary to what has been suggested earlier.  I used to run a mix of the two on my bus (I have since switched back to 12R all the way around -- the extra soft-surface performance was not worth the extra expense and hassle of the 315s), and I've never had trouble finding a 12R when I needed it anywhere in the country, whereas few road service establishments stock 315s.

YMMV, of course.

HTH,

-Sean
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« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 11:33:57 AM by Sean » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2009, 10:51:22 AM »

Sorry Sean I should have said the metric version of Toyo tires no where did I say the" metric equivalent" ,and I do know the difference in the 2 tires but thanks for the lesson anyway.
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2009, 11:22:31 AM »

You said "metric version" which might have led an inexperienced reader to believe the tires were interchangeable -- they are not.  (Subsequent posts by others here suggested to me that confusion existed on this matter.)

The "lesson" was not intended for you -- it was intended for less experienced folks who might justifiably be confused by the bewildering array of choices in the tire market, and the often conflicting (and sometimes incorrect or downright dangerous) advice dispensed by tire dealers.

Please do not take everything written so personally -- it's not always about you.  Literally hundreds of people read these threads, sometimes years later.

-Sean
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« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2009, 02:57:42 PM »

Sean and Luvrbus,
Now I am really confused! Literally! All the tire dealers around here swear that the 315 is the metric version of the 12R. (even the distribution warehouse I've been buying them from directly!)

Just last week I had a customer call me and ask me to get some 12R's for his bus. So I called my distributor asked him to give me a price on them. He told me "I can get them, but we're looking at 7-10 working days. And they are the same as the 315's you have been buying! It's just that they are the metric version of the 12R, and one is 42.2 inches and the other is 42.6 inches tall! 

Now Sean & Clifford I know that ya'll usually know what your talking about and most of the time have yrs of hands on experience or have done extensive research on it to back up what ya say!
SO here's what confuses me why would the distributor (and all the local dealers too) come off with a line of BS like that when the 12R's are still available and actually about $40 per tire cheaper?

By the way Sean around here a 12R really is a dinosaur as almost all our local dealers either have or can get a 315 daily but it takes a week to 2 weeks to get the 12R's.
Also the distributor says the excise tax on them is $40 per tire! (which is what I get charged on my invoices.)
I am not disputing or doubting your personal experiences. Just letting you in on our local scene!
Just trying to learn something here!  Huh  BK   Huh
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« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2009, 07:44:21 PM »

I bought my 315-80R22.5 's in 2005 ( Goodyear G670RV ) and they were $701 each installed. That is a lot of money yes!

My (NJT) MC9 came with 315-80R22.5 tires on 9 Inch rims. The max run load is over 9,000 lbs @130 psi .

The tire diameter is almost the same rotations as the 12R22.5 that I was using on other buses so there was no advantage there. The advantage is in two main areas. One being a wider footprint (helps flotation & traction) and the load capacity which means a tougher tire to damage.

The long lifetime and UV stability also helped. I have seen so many tires that looked like new with little wear fail due to dry rot and age. It is NO FUN having a tire give out on these things.

The thing about these large tires is that you have to get them hot and turning so that the rubber and compounds will stay alive. Most RV's and Bus conversions sit much more than they go down the road so while you are sleeping your tires are busy degrading from lack of use.

You can pay less and probably will. I didn't want to worry about the rubber things while I sleep. I know my tires will get me there when I need them.

Dave...
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« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2009, 07:48:59 PM »

Are the Goodyear G670RV tires really going to last twice as long as a normal truck tire?  I could almost buy two sets of pretty decent tires for what the G670RV tires cost.

No tire is likely to last my lifetime since I'm not even 40 yet.  I'm not looking forward to tire replacement in probably three more years.
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« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2009, 10:05:57 PM »

... All the tire dealers around here swear that the 315 is the metric version of the 12R. (even the distribution warehouse I've been buying them from directly!)
... they are the same as the 315's you have been buying! It's just that they are the metric version of the 12R,


Bryce, the 315 is different from the 12R both dimensionally (the 315 has a wider tread and casing, and requires a wider rim) and structurally -- typical 12R22.5 tires have about a 7,000 lb (single) load capacity, and typical 315/80R22.5 have 9,000-10,000 lb (single) load capacity.  315s will also not fit everyplace a 12R will, as I wrote above (I can't use them on my tag, as they would rub the tie rods, and on my steers they scraped the wheel wells).

The best way to see the difference in black and white is to find a tire model that is made in both sizes, and compare specs.  That's hard to do, because many manufacturers use special model designations for their 315 tires.  The Continental HDR is one tire that comes in both sizes, and I invite you to compare the 12R and 315 specs for that model here:
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/us/en/continental/transport/themes/goods/regional/hidden/regional_drive_en.html
(click on HDR brochure, or use this link:
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/us/en/continental/transport/themes/hidden/download/dl_ss_hdr_screen.pdf)

Quote
Also the distributor says the excise tax on them is $40 per tire!


FET is not subject to any sort of negotiation by the dealer -- he's got to pay it correctly every time.  That said, some dealers "fudge" the numbers.  For example, technically the dealer should use the maximum single load rating (in pounds) to calculate the FET, but often they will use the lower "dual" load rating instead, especially if the tire is a drive- or trailer-type tire, or an all-position that he is installing on a dualed axle.

The FET is 9.45 cents for every ten pounds of load rating over 3,500.  So for a 12R22.5 with a load rating of 7,380 lbs, you'd pay (7,380-3,500)/10*$.0945, or $36.67 per tire.  By contrast, a 315/80R22.5 with a single load rating of 9,090 lbs, you'd pay (9,090-3,500)/10*$.0945, or $52.83 per tire.

That said, many manufacturers offer 315's in two different load ranges, typically H and J.  The H tire in that size has a load limit of just 7,610 dual (again, they really should use the single number), and the FET could calculate out at $38.84, if an unscrupulous dealer calculated it that way (the single limit in LR-H is 8,270, for an FET of $45.08).  Here is one such tire that is offered in both load ranges:
http://www.goodyear.com/cfmx/web/truck/line.cfm?prodline=160540

Hope that clears things up.  Again, many tire dealers themselves are simply uninformed about some of these details.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2009, 10:23:04 PM »

Are the Goodyear G670RV tires really going to last twice as long as a normal truck tire?  I could almost buy two sets of pretty decent tires for what the G670RV tires cost.

No tire is likely to last my lifetime since I'm not even 40 yet.  I'm not looking forward to tire replacement in probably three more years.


Brian, my experience is that the G670RV tires are only 5%-10% more than similarly rated truck tires in the same size.  As I said above, you can't compare pricing on any 315 vs. a 12r -- they are very different tires.

BTW, I had a pair of G670RV tires in 315/80 -- they lasted about two years and 40,000 miles.  So, no, IMO, they are not worth even the 5-10%.  I have since gone back to 12R22.5 Firestones.

We had to replace the tires that came on the bus due to age.  Every tire we've bought since then we've worn out.  Unless you are expecting to get rid of or stop driving your bus in 6-7 years, no tire is going to be "the last tire you will have to buy."

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com


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« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2009, 04:55:43 AM »

Sean,

Could you give your thoughts on all position tires vs dedicated drive and steers.

You stated above that you are running Firestones. May I ask what model firestones you are running?

Thanks
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