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Author Topic: Shepherd Engine Problems  (Read 5152 times)
rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« on: July 11, 2009, 01:44:13 PM »

A short time ago I started a thread on problems I was having with loss of coolant:  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=12423.msg130552#msg130552

I said that I would update you great folks on my findings.  It is not good and I will need to have the engine rebuilt.  The details are at:  http://rvsafetysystems.com/Engine_problems.htm

I have no idea how we will pay for this, but we don't have an option Sad

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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John316
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 01:47:46 PM »

AAAAwwwww, bummer. That is too bad Jim. I feel for you. Money is one of the toughest things....

God bless

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
luvrbus
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 01:59:20 PM »

Sorry to hear that Jim but it sounds like Cole was right on about the center bores on that engine, he has always told me that would happen to a 60 series with miles that is why I passed the info on to you on the Eagle board. 
FWIW he was hoping for you that wasn't the problem    

good luck
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 02:01:35 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 02:17:57 PM »

Jim, I think that there newer 12.7ltr Series 60 engines out in the market place that could be had for cheaper.

I have seen low mile 14ltr engine for around 10K in this economy.   Look at the DDEC IV engines.   One with 200K on the clock with documented miles might be better than updating your older S60.
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Sean
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 02:28:42 PM »

Jim,

Really sorry to hear it.  I sent you an email on the subject.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 02:31:35 PM »

While that sounds like alot of money-and it is-I still think you're better to rebuild what you have, and then have the piece of mind that everything in the engine is fresh, and then you're in full control of the maintenance, checking the oil and coolant to prevent cavitation damage in the future.  With proper maintenance, this will probably be your last engine needed.  Make sure you have the radiator checked out also.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 02:45:18 PM »

I believe Jim has a pre EGR 12.7 engine and my sources say that is the engine you want not the 14L or the 12.7 EGR engine       good luck
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 03:16:08 PM »

I feel your pain Jim and FWIW I strongly support your decision to rebuild what you have.  The only advice I can give you in that regard is to start budgetting right now for the final bill to be larger than you presently expect.  The whole premise of rebuilding what you have is that it will be "right" when you are done and that inevitably leads to spending extra money along the way.  IMHO.
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 03:50:57 PM »

My heart goes out to you Jim! I can't imagine how you must feel right now.

I pray for a good fix and the money to do it right!

Paul
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Gary '79 5C
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2009, 04:28:48 PM »

Jim,
 I feel for you, never is it a good time to part with $15K. However, my PO had the 6V92TA fully rebuilt & tested in that Stewart & Stevenson Shop in Denver. He was very pleased with service and rebuild. I have about 35K since it was rebuilt & knock wood all is well. I have that repair/rebuild invoice and they were very complete and fair in billing.

Hope all works out for the best for you,

Gary
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2009, 07:32:46 PM »

Jim,

So sorry about your bad news. I agree with planning for bill add on,s, and you do need to check the radiator, rod it, replace the core, while you wait for the rebuild.


john
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 08:25:22 AM »

How much would be a Reliabilt long block from the factory?  Then you'd have a factory warranty also (I believe 2yr/200,000miles). Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 11:51:29 AM »

Jim
There is a compleat 12.7 that came out of a wrecked bus in this area that I think can be bought for about $3500.00 The bus was wrecked in the front.  About 450,000 DD3  compleat with everything.  All you would need to do is slide it in.
Jack
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NJT 5573
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2009, 02:09:19 PM »

Jim,

Sorry about the engine.

If it were me whether I had the money or not I would not use that engine. They are like a Cat. The give excellent service for a long time and when they need repairs they need a lot of expensive parts and labor. They also will run long enough to almost out date their technology before they break and then the question of a rebuild and another 700,000 miles comes into play. How will you ever get your money's worth out of that engine?

If you want to run an inline engine the Cummins 855 series are real cheap to buy, easy to repair and inexpensive to repair as well. Maybe not all the glory of having a 60 series or a Cat, but when it needs fixed, they are real easy on your wallet and easy to do yourself with almost no tools. They also use all the same parts for a variety of power ratings from 300 to over 400 HP and they are built to 800 HP and live. They are available from a couple thousand used to up to $8000 rebuilt in todays market.

If you did that, you would end up with solid mechanical technology. Sell the Auto Shift, get a 10 speed double OD to go with it and it could be back on the road for under $3000 with a dependable 120 MPH bus.

I might repair the 60, if not for the camshaft issue. The need for a cam kinda puts it over the limit to me. If the cam were OK, the $1995 aftermarket kit from A&R would be good enough for my RV needs. The low liner protrusion is usually just shimed, but the shops will sure sell you a trip through the machine room if they can. They will likely want to even machine the good holes! May as well line bore the block and turn the crank .010 or .020 for a nice clean up as well! OOPS, there goes $15 grand!

Still, if you had the tools, $2000 for a rebuild kit with gaskets, a few hundred for head bolts and $400 for 2 injectors... Leaves the cam deal... I am looking for a price for a cam and a follower for that engine.

Sell your block, crank, head, turbo parts etc. for some cash... Buy another engine... There has to be a used engine like yours around that has already been rebuilt for a reasonable price.

You were smart not to go for the head gasket deal because now we know that would have not got you out of trouble and you would have been stuck on the spot for some real big bucks.

Cummins has kept alot of us poor people in the trucking business. Those days are kind of gone with the newer engine technology, but the old stuff sometimes is still the best stuff in many ways, especially when they need repair. You can cut the Cummins counterbores in the vehicle, 3 heads lets you repair the bad hole and go back to work. Push fit liners on the old small cam engines all make them simple and cheap to keep in service. Press fit on the Big Cam isn't that much harder to do... Its a joke in the Cummins parts room, that if you don't like the big bucks emissions engines you should just go back to the 855 series. I think they would be impossible to beat for service in a bus/RV situation.  

In trucking we don't always rebuild everything just because it stopped working. Sometimes we are like you and don't want to spend the bucks. The value of a good mechanic is knowing what will run again and what won't. I have seen liners with electrolysis rotated 1/2 turn and reinstalled with a hone job and some new rings. The low liners would just get shimmed if nothing is cracked and set some new bearings for the well being of the crank and off it goes. The big problem doing that with the 60 series or a Cat is the one piece head really keeps the labor costs up there and if your going to tear into it you may as well do it right unless you do all your own work and don't mind spending some more time on it a couple hundred thousand miles down the road.

There were only 10 really bad people that came from the Yakima Valley and I get 9 Christmas cards every year. One of those cards comes from my friend Tom. He's in the hospital today. They put a liner in his heart last night. They could have given him a new heart or a rebuilt, but they just fixed what was broken this time. I don't think he got a guarantee, but he's back on the road in the morning.
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2009, 02:25:26 PM »

From reading Jim's webpage I don't think he wants to take a risk with another used engine.  How does he know if he spends $5,000 on a used engine that he won't be in the position of needing a rebuild again in 6 months or a year?  Also, considering all the time he spent on a wiring harness and motor mounts for the Series 60 I doubt he is going to switch to a different model of engine.

Maybe it would better for him to rebuild a used engine without known problems, but I don't really know.  The total costs would probably end up the same.

I am really hoping I don't see these problems with my Series 60, but I believe it only has 300,000 to 400,000 miles on it.  I would probably be forced into an as-is sale of my bus if my engine needed a rebuild with my finances today.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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