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Author Topic: Shepherd Engine Problems  (Read 5352 times)
Zeroclearance
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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2009, 04:58:30 PM »

Tom has mentioned a really good suggestion> try to find out what a factory longblock is worth which will give Jim a 2 year warranty.    Even though Jim has mentioned that he wants to keep his engine> it might need so much machine work to get it correct that a better engine block might be in order.   Why did the liners sink, if you had that much damage and erosion what are the other holes looking like. 

NJT5573 has also brought up some very good points and advise.   There is a shop that has been selling a few S60 blocks on ebay for around $800  fully machined.    On the west coast you can call Diesel Cast or Diesel Cast West in Portland.   I think they have a few S60 engine blocks machined and ready to go.

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luvrbus
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« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2009, 06:04:46 PM »

We bought a Reliabilt 12.7 series 60 3 years ago and it was 19 grand + odd and ends came to a total of 21 grand  bet they are over 25 grand now +and you get a 100,000 mile warranty free so to speak but pay for the other 100,000 miles.
FWIW guys you do a out of frame rebuild on a 8v92 if it has a bad crank and heads you can get up to 20 grand with the repairs been there ,done that and have the tee shirt to prove it.  good luck
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« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2009, 06:05:25 PM »

Series 60 rebuilds at an authorized Detroit dealer only come with the really good warranty if the engine is less than 10 years old.  I don't know if a Reliabilt long block would have the same warranty issues or not.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 06:19:09 PM »

Jim,

Wow we are up in the big dollars. I do not know what your first take out cost but I would try to find something less expensive than the 20K plus. I have a friend and all he does is go by the yards and listen to the engine in the truck run, if he likes what he hears he has them cut it out load it on a trailor take it to his yard and install them with modifications to tug boats.

If your are interested I will get his input for you, you will have to give me any specifications that will help him.

John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2009, 06:39:59 PM »

If I was buying a DDEC engine I would follow a friends advice and remove the DDEC and take it to dealer and let them  download the DDEC nothing can be erased from memory only from the Prom (read only).
Cole is a pretty sharp guy on the DD and loves the 8v92 and series 60 engines and always laughs when people say they run the series 60 a million miles and do nothing to the engine.      good luck Jim with whatever you do but a used 60 series with 4 or 500,000 miles on the engine would not be a option for me
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 07:05:12 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2009, 07:28:09 PM »

What Clifford said and good luck from this Canuck too.  Its pretty easy for all of us to spend Jim's money but I'm betting its not such an easy call from where he sits.
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2009, 07:35:15 PM »

Hi guys - thanks for all the thoughts and comments.

Several folks have suggested a Reliabilt long block.  DDC has a four stage rebuild program that they call "Step Up".  This link explains the program and prices:  http://www.teamtruck.com/links/list/index.php?id=28.  As you can see, the replacement engine is over $21K.  These prices are just about what Stewart Stevenson charges, but they do not publish the replacement cost (would assume they would be close).

My $15K quote is for a stage 2 with new injectors, new bull gear, new cam, and full machining of the liner shoulder with inserts.  I am not sure what else they could find to charge me for.  The crank is good, and they have inspected the block for obvious cracks.

The turbo and water pump are good (I replaced them before I stuck the engine in).

I would still entertain a used engine IF repeat IF it had a documented good rebuild or had documented low miles (less than 400K) AND documented good maintenance.  However, the logistics of getting the engine here and my engine there could add up in cost and time.

I think the maintenance on this engine was marginal at best (no records available).

Jim

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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
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« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2009, 07:52:28 PM »

I think the maintenance on this engine was marginal at best (no records available).

What maintenance items do you think the previous owner might have neglected?  I would like to be sure I am doing everything right, but I have no idea how the previous owner may have treated the bus when they had it.  This reminds me that I need to go get a new coolant filter.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2009, 09:05:18 PM »

Brian,

The only maintence issue I see is the cavitation issue with the liners and they didn't fail. The liner protrusion I would not judge without looking at the head gasket. The computer engines are real hard to get hot with all the shutdown devices, so the liners are probably still close to where they were when it left the factory. How would 2 drop togather? Not likely and I know of no history of this engine having this problem with side by side cylinders.. The camshaft looks like it was an injector lobe and it did have 700,000 miles on it and thats not bad for a camshaft. That is one area where some synthetic oil could have helped, but cams fail anyway... Was the bad lobe firing one of the bad injectors?

I think if the head bolt wasn't broken, Jim would likely still be driving it around for some time. Thats a lot of miles for any head bolt. They wear thin just under the head for some reason and just die. On a rebuild I always throw the ones that show any wear and I can almost always find more than one to replace, especially when you have over 400 HP...

Was the head bolt broken on the same hole as the cam lobe? As the blown head gasket? Is one of those the same hole as one of the liners that is walking around in the block?

So, more oil changes or better oil may have helped the cam, but thats about it and this engine could have been pulling 105,500 lbs all its life and if thats the case, it probably did its fair share.
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"Ammo Warrior" Keepers Of The Peace, Creators Of Destruction.
Gold is the money of Kings, Silver is the money of Gentlemen, Barter is the money of Peasants, Debt is the money of Slaves.

$1M in $1000 bills = 8 inches high.
$1B in $1000 bills = 800 feet high.
$1T in $1000 bills = 142 miles high
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2009, 03:30:56 PM »

OK Guys, need your though process (vote) once again.  I am convinced that the rebuild will not go over the quote of $15k and change unless they find a crack in the block (am told that is unlikely). 

I have spent the last two days looking at alternatives to put together that much money and it is grim. 

I said that I did not want to buy another engine, but I found one (with the help of a great friend).  It is Ogden UT and I know the folks to be pretty darn honest.  Brian Diehl got his engine from them.

The engine was rebuilt 180K ago according to some papers they have and the fact that the ECM was reset.  The owner said he can tell the head has been replace as well as the turbo.  It would be about 8K delivered to Denver.

So, if I get the serial number, and it was rebuilt by DDC, would they have a record?  Do other rebuilders reset the ECM?

If I can confirm that the engine was rebuilt, what are your thoughts on trying the used route again. 

My poor old tired brain is not working too well right now and I could use some guidance.

Thanks!!!!!

Jim
303 four seven eight, 3501
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2009, 03:46:22 PM »

Jim, Cole read your post an called me said post the serial number if was rebuilt by a DD dealer and not a truck dealer he can get you any info you need on that engine.       good luck
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2009, 04:38:09 PM »

Clifford, I have asked for the serial number and what truck line owned the truck (might speak to the maintenance).  I should have that information tomorrow. 

Cole, thanks for the offer.
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2009, 06:44:43 PM »

I'd say buy it.
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Melbo
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« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2009, 07:24:01 PM »

get the numbers and check them out.

I wish I had gotten the serial numbers and other information

HTH YMMV

Melbo
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« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2009, 08:33:46 PM »

Jim,

The ECM reset is a DD mainframe computer only item as far as I know. Make sure the serial numbers match ECM to block.

Its still alot of money, but the rest of us buy used all the time. I'd find out why it was parted and want to be sure there is no physical damage to the engine they won't stand behind. I've seen turbo housings cracked etc...

DDEC takes alot of the variables out of this because it would shut down if it was on its side and lost oil or water.

If they have the paperwork see what they did to the counterbores and crank....
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"Ammo Warrior" Keepers Of The Peace, Creators Of Destruction.
Gold is the money of Kings, Silver is the money of Gentlemen, Barter is the money of Peasants, Debt is the money of Slaves.

$1M in $1000 bills = 8 inches high.
$1B in $1000 bills = 800 feet high.
$1T in $1000 bills = 142 miles high
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