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Author Topic: Blew turbo, west of Albuquerque  (Read 11887 times)
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2009, 07:03:06 AM »

OK I just got back from the shop where I checked both our 8V92TA DDEC units ('89 & '91 Setra's) and heres the skinny!
You only have the oil feed line coming in the top of the turbo from down around the alternator area (at least on both ours is does). But I feel confident that with plenty of penetrating oil and care you'll be able to take it loose at the turbo and set it aside.
Then you have the air intake hose coming in (big rubber hose from the air cleaner) to one side of the turbo. On the other side you have the exhaust flange with the 4 bolts. These maybe difficult to get out! I'd soak, soak and re-soak these with penetrating oil and probably re-soak them again!
Then you have a short hose going to the blower housing from the turbo (easy to undo), and last the 2 BOLTS mounting the turbo itself. (one on each side of the oil feed line.
On these engines there is not an oil return line as the oil exits the turbo housing down into the blower housing at the mounting flange.

Again I still feel it is your best bet to tackle this rather than risk damage to "Odyssey" by towing it!

Call if you need verbal or moral support! Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
boogiethecat
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2009, 07:03:38 AM »

Sean, for what it's worth, I did the same thing two months ago halfway up the Baker grade.  The bearings failed in my turbo.  All I did was took the inlet and outlet sides off, removed the inlet wheel  and pulled the shaft (with outlet wheel still mounted to it), stuck a bolt long into the shaft hole to clog it with a nut to keep it in place, put the intake and exhaust pipes back on and drove it 400 miles home without incident (and without a lot of power, and a lot of smoke going up grades!! 

I also plugged the oil line to it. Maybe doing something like that is cheaper and more practical than a tow... I can't imagine it'd hurt your exhaust- steel pipe takes much more heat than your engine will put to it.  I did ruin my EGT sensor and toasted the turbo drain and the wastegate hoses, but that was all.

My inlet wheel had a left hand thread. All it took was holding the outlet wheel with pliers and unscrewing the inlet wheel, and it all popped off.  Don't know how your turbo is constructed but probably similar.  Mine's a garretson.  Note that I'm talking about my Crown, so your situation may vary....

Being it seems you havn't shattered anything and your engine is not full of little turbo bits, this oughta work just fine for you...
Good luck
gary
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Melbo
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2009, 08:08:33 AM »

Sean

Charlie and Detroit Diesel are now very close to where you are

They moved to the west side of the river

If there is anything I can do to help let me know

Melbo

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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2009, 08:37:59 AM »

Sean, Here are some pictures of my 8V92TA sitting in the shop...showing the turbo and which bolts and nuts need to be removed, all you need is 1/2, 9/16, 5/8ths wrenches.....nothing special there are only 8 bolts and clamps to be removed!  Good luck!  First photo  is the clamp from the turbo hot side 1/2 wrench or socket!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 08:39:45 AM by muddog16 » Logged

Pat

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muddog16
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2009, 08:41:05 AM »

2nd photo is the clamps and boot on the turbo discharge again 1/2 wrench or socket.
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Pat

1982 Prevost LeMirage
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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2009, 08:42:36 AM »

3rd photo are the two 5/8" bolts that hold the turbo down, and the 5/8" nut for the oil line,
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Pat

1982 Prevost LeMirage
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muddog16
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« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2009, 08:44:23 AM »

the 4th and last photo is the T on the outlet lines to the turbo, there are 4 9/16" nuts, this should be everything you need to remove the turbo.  Also the clamp on the cold side needs to be removed also.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 08:46:20 AM by muddog16 » Logged

Pat

1982 Prevost LeMirage
8V92TA/HT754

http://prevostlemirage.blogspot.com/
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2009, 09:59:50 AM »

Well Pat beat to it I went and took pics too!
If ya can't get the 4 flange nuts off the studs, then you might could remove the 2 clamps holding the T to the pipes coming up from the exhaust manifolds! As shown in this photo.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 10:05:48 AM by Busted Knuckle » Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
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« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2009, 10:10:28 AM »

Here is the oil feed line and one of 2 mounting bolts visible.
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
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« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2009, 10:15:23 AM »

Even when the nuts look bad on the exhaust flange if they are original DD nuts they come off easy it's when someone replaced nuts with ones from Ace Hardware that gives you the problems. FWIW I pay the $2.20 each for those 4 nuts for peace of mind knowing they can be removed when the time comes 
good luck
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 10:30:50 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Sean
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« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2009, 12:35:22 PM »

Update:

Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than good.

I had just wrestled the exhaust blankets off the turbo (showing evidence of gas leakage -- soot -- around the inside edge, as well as a spot of fresh oil), had soaked the exhaust flange studs in WD-40, and was loosening the intake duct to check the impeller, when Louise, on her way to the laundromat here, spotted a "mobile mechanic" truck in the parking lot.

We called the number, and Jim the mobile truck repair guy agreed to come over and have a look.  I took it as a good sign that, when I told him it was an 8V92, he said "oh, you must be in a bus."  Since he was already here, he agreed to work for just his hourly rate of $75, without the mileage charge.  Pretty, good, I thought, for a Sunday morning.

Jim had two things that I did not:
  • 30+ years of experience working on diesels full-time as a mechanic.
  • A whizzy cordless 1/2" impact wrench.

We chatted for a few moments, and he picked up basically right where I left off.  The good news was that the impeller looked to be in good shape; so much so that, at first, Jim thought the turbo was fine (for just a heart-stopping moment).  A few seconds later, though, he realized he could wiggle the impeller in the housing, and he predicted that the shaft was broken in two.  Whew... that meant it was very likely a bad turbo and nothing else.

He had the turbo out in less than half an hour.  I figured it would have taken me two hours to do the same work, between going very slowly and methodically because I've not done it before, and having to work the bolts loose in cramped quarters with just hand tools.  As it was, two of the exhaust flange studs came clean out, nut and all (the nuts came off the other two as normal).

Sure enough, he was spot-on about the problem.  The turbine/impeller shaft was broken in two, and the exhaust turbine was seized in the housing.  This accounts for all the symptoms:  high exhaust back-pressure preventing the blower from completely clearing the cylinders, unburned fuel likely continuing to burn inside the exhaust system, and oil flowing past the bearings and into both the intake and exhaust systems.

Careful inspection of the impeller (compressor wheel) showed no significant damage, and so we agreed that it was unlikely any debris was sent into the blower.  He was willing to hunt around to find a turbo today, but we also agreed that I would have to pay a considerable premium to get one on a Sunday.

Later today I will get all the numbers I can find off the turbo (it's outside now, and just too bloody hot here in the sun -- I'll do it after sundown), and tomorrow morning I will start calling around.  Recommendations for suppliers are welcome; also, if anybody knows exactly what turbo I need, let me know.  I can load the turbo on my scooter and run it into Albuquerque for an exchange.  I'll also need the exhaust flange gasket, oil return gasket, and blower adapter gasket (we could not get the turbo off the hose that leads to the blower without removing the adapter).

I'm pretty sure I can get this back in on my own, but I may well call Jim back, just to have a higher confidence that it's been done right.  We were very fortunate to luck into someone with plenty of DD 2-stroke experience.  In addition to his rate, the round trip mileage charge will be an additional $60.  At least he is willing to come back and put in parts that I supply -- if he acquired them, there would be a 30% mark-up.

So that's the status.  I'd like to thank everyone who has provided information or offered assistance so far.  At this point, I think all I need is a source for a rebuilt turbo and the gaskets, preferably at something less than DD-distributor prices (I would be willing to bet Stewart & Stevenson can get me everything I need, for top-dollar prices).

In the meantime, we'll be sitting here in the air conditioning, courtesy of Dr. Kubota, and surfing the Internet.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2009, 01:26:38 PM »

Sean call Don Fairchild @ six six one-3 nine 1-45 twenty! He is a distributor and can overnight you one! I don't know his prices but he's reasonable and can tell you exactly which one you need from the #'s  off the turbo tag or the engine serial # you give him.
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
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« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2009, 01:32:15 PM »

Sean, some Cat and Cummins engines use the same turbo model TV 8513 with a 1.39 a/r also you can buy a new Borg/Warner for less cash if you need a new one they are about 800 bucks without the hot housing depending on the store.
I am glad you didn't lose a injector tip.     good luck
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 02:02:07 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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akroyaleagle
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« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2009, 02:13:26 PM »

Sean, the turbo number on mine is a Garret E8927027. Other info is VBM0104, 9032M24,
A/R .81.

Mine is NOT a DDEC. It is 525hp.

Changing a turbo is not very difficult. Good Luck.
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Joe Laird
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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2009, 02:21:37 PM »

Sean;

The Garrett part number for your turbocharger is 465745-0001  >TV8513 family.  Clifford posted the turbine A/R which should be 1.39, please verify.   Joe posted the compressor housing A/R and number > .81A/R

The complete center section that you should be looking for "new"  is a 442032-0022   I'm pretty sure that I have one..     I strongly recommend not getting a rebuilt unit but spending the extra $$$ and buying a new center section.   This will get you a brand new bearing housing, backplate, compressor wheel and turbine wheel all assembled and balanced.   

Make sure you inspect the turbine housing for cracks.   If you have a crack that is running into the throat of the turbine housing, this will change the picture of things.

I'll post the Garrett build sheet for you shortly.
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