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Author Topic: Charge Air Cooler?????????  (Read 3058 times)
Michael_e
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2009, 12:26:19 PM »

Thanks everyone for the responses. Didn't mean to hyjack your thread Jack. But this has got me to thinking, and that in itself could be dangerous. Anyway, i always wondered just how efficent that aftercooler could possibly be, considering where it is located and it uses the engine water/cooling system. In normal conditions, the water/cooling system is usually running between 170-195 degrees. So wouldn't that be the coolest the air charge gets? Stealing thoughts from drag racing, and bear with me here, couldn't some form of cool can system be developed? Maybe using some form of refrigated air from a small airconditioner system to cool the intercooler? Just tosing out some thoughts. I really have a lot of room in the back of my Scenicrusier due to the original air compressor and associated equipment being long gone. Heck, with that much room i could really hillbilly up something fantastic.

Mike
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1955 GM Scenicrusier, 8V92TA & Allison 754. Totally rewiring all 12v systems and lots of questions.
belfert
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2009, 01:51:43 PM »

Any HP gain from cooler air would probably be offset by the HP required to run the refrigeration.  With drag racing, things have to run for maybe five minutes at a time.  On a bus things have to be able to run for hours on end potentially.

An air to air intercooler would probably be easier than a cool can system.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Michael_e
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2009, 04:06:27 PM »

Brian, what i was thinking is that some buses have some large generators that make a lot of unused electricity. Why not put that electricity to use to drive some small air conditioning unit or possibly for those who have large basement type of units, run a set of lines back to the engine bay and make up a cold box back there. Heck, i'm about 450 miles from my bus and am just daydreaming about all the wonderful contraptions i could build. But i do know that i need to get the turbo off my 8V92 and have it checked. I seem to remember there was some 'slop' in the bearings.  Thanks,   Mike
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1955 GM Scenicrusier, 8V92TA & Allison 754. Totally rewiring all 12v systems and lots of questions.
belfert
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2009, 05:31:29 PM »

I guess it would work if you always run the generator when going down the road.  Me personally I don't run the generator on the road unless I need air conditioning.  Then, I already have an air to air intercooler that seems to work fine.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
John316
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 07:03:42 PM »

Brian, what i was thinking is that some buses have some large generators that make a lot of unused electricity.

Michael,

Actually not really. I know that ours (20KW), uses less fuel the less electricity you are using. So we don't want to burn maximum fuel all of the time. FWIW

I think that you are meaning that they are capable producing more electricity. I don't believe that generators "store" extra, meaning that they don't produce "extra." However you have a interesting idea.

God bless,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2009, 07:19:01 PM »

If one can gain extra HP for the main engine by running the generator, it might be worth it for some. 

Generators will put out a minimum amount of power which could be more than one is actually using, but most aren't going to run a generator unless they have significant load.  The refrigeration required for this cool can is probably gpoing to take more than minimum power.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
pvcces
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2009, 10:47:18 PM »

Michael, we have a 4106 that has a 3 KW oil cooled generator mounted on the engine. That's 4 hp required for that output before allowing for losses. It requires that we burn an extra 1/4 gallon of fuel per hour at full output.

If we are using full throttle to climb a mountain AND taking full output from the generator, it cuts the delivered power for climbing by something over 4 hp. That doesn't sound like much, but it comes right from the power delivered to the drivers, so it's noticeable.

Another item that's noticeable is the fan, if it's on an electric clutch. That's enough to cost a gear while climbing.

In modern cars, if you are using full throttle, the air conditioner is cut off immediately and stays off until you reduce the throttle opening. This is to improve performance and to reduce overheating.

There is no free power; you just don't notice that it's gone in some of these cases.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2009, 08:16:34 AM »


Micheal_e, you could star with a couple temperature sensors, one on each side of the charge air cooler, and take some idea of what is going on.  a smaller project but will satisfy your curiuosity and not cost a lot. 

Since you have a water to air cooler, you could seperate it into its own system (pump and radiator, fan, etc) and maybe do what you said.  with your temperatures you can decide if it is worth your while or not.

Interesting project.  keep us posted.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2009, 08:31:30 AM »

How about a cool can set up (only larger) like we used to use on the derby cars for the "heater core" radiators and "transmission cooler coils" ?
We used to take an old big ice chest and drill four holes in it 2-1/2" holes for the 3/8" copper tubing for the "tranny coolers", & 2-1 1/4" holes for the heater hoses then we'd hook several heater cores in series inside the ice chest along with a 25'-50' coil of copper tubing. (depending on the size of cooler and the amount of "spare" tubing we could scrounge!) Then we'd pack it with dry ice for the "race". When I first started doing this everyone thought I was NUTZ, but B4 long everyone wuz do'n it! I even by-passed the whole radiator one night after taking a nasty hit to it that ripped it in half! Still won 2 heats and the feature on those "auxiliary" radiators in the cooler!
Just a thought! FWIW
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
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www.kylakesidetravel.net

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Michael_e
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2009, 09:58:20 AM »

Very interesting... how about a cross of ideas from Busted Knuckle & NewbeeMC9. Reroute the aftercooling lines to a ice box type of affair? Put the ice box somewhere near the side of the bus, use a NACA type of duct to cool the aftercooler during the cooler months and then have a small air conditioner cooler for the warmer months. Like i said earlier, my bus and all my manuals are 450 miles away and all i have here is my daydreams and a couple of pics on the computer. Does anyone have any pics of where the aftercooler lines come out of the engine, or know of a web link that might show this?
Thanks,

Mike
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1955 GM Scenicrusier, 8V92TA & Allison 754. Totally rewiring all 12v systems and lots of questions.
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