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Author Topic: 1990 Country Coach 8V92 Engine Swap to 60 Series  (Read 9996 times)
zxzx9r
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« on: August 06, 2009, 12:16:33 PM »

Hello Im new to this site and would like some info. I have a 1990 Prevost country coach and it has a 8v92 engine. I want to change it over to a 60 series. I would like to know if it can be done, do I need a biger radator, will the dedec wire in the coach work on the newer dedec, what different gages will I need for the dash, will a 6 speed or a 10 speed trany work beter, is my gearing ok or will it work better with newer gearing, any moter mounts changes, weight concideration, maybe a ballpark on price from start to finish, ect. Any info would be great Thank You
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luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 12:38:26 PM »

Buy yourself a 1994 parts and maintenance manual from Prevost and it will cover both the 92 series and 60s easy to read with lots of drawings on the cradle, mounts and wiring with parts numbers .
You will need a smaller radiator with the air charger mounted on one side.
They both use a lot of the same parts 
Hope you are going to use a 12.7 and not the 11.1, for the transmission cheapest is going to be a auto shift Eaton a B500 cost big bucks without a core   good luck
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RickB
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 12:52:10 PM »

Just curious.

Why the switch?

What shape is your 8v92 in and what are you gonna do with it ??

Inquiring minds want to know.

As far as an estimated cost to do the swap:

I have always been told by friends who have done major repowers to plan on a dollar amount and hope that it only goes 1/3 over budget but plan that your estimates will amount to 1/2 of the actual cost when you factor in all those pesky unforeseen things. Hoses, motor mounts, fabrication, coolant, after and intercoolers, etc.

If you are a mechanic by trade and an experienced do it yourselfer who can weld like there's no tomorrow with a minor in physics and mathematics, all bets are off!!!

good luck with your project...

Rick
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zxzx9r
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 01:14:27 PM »

Well I was hoping to use the engine for some tradeing value for the 60 series motor. The engine has 20,000 miles on the fresh rebuild. And the tranny is a 4 or 5 speed and it was put on a dino and checked out great. If I change the engine the 8v92 and tranny will be up for grabs.
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wayne
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 02:07:54 PM »

I put a lot of thought to this when I repowered mine. The little changes add up to be astronomical and very time consuming. I had a 1990 8v92 DDEC II, I ended up with a 1994 8v92 DDEC IV - Allison World 6spd with 18,000 original miles. That repower was costly and time consuming due to all the computer and wiring changes. I had to make new transmission mounts but the engine fell right in. I wouldn't want to deal with all the coolers and additional fabricating involved with changes to a series engine. If you are good at wiring and fabricating maybe it's worth doing, just seems like you are all set with what you have.
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 10:32:30 PM »

If you're doing this for fuel mileage improvement-you're break even point is going to be somewhere around the 200-250,000 mile mark.  Is it worth it for the extra 1-2 mile per gallon-I don't think so.  8V-92TA is a good engine-just make sure you keep on top of the cooling system and you should get at least 500,000 miles out of the overhaul.  Good Luck, TomC
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zxzx9r
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 10:05:54 AM »

I'm not puting this motor in my coach for fuel economy, I want the torque of the 60 series motor and I'm try ed of the heat problems with the pyros. Plus that motor will put the resale value way up there. All the coaches with the 60 series motors are 95 and newer with 40 or 45 foot. They are 200,000 plus even the 40 footers are the same. Eveything 95 and newer is all electric. My 90 has LP system and that nice. Any ways If there is anyone that now if this can be done let me know. What kind of fabrication am I in for?
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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 12:19:46 PM »

I doubt you'll ever get back what you put into a Series 60 conversion.  A Series 60 put into an older coach isn't going to automatically make it worth as much as a factory Series 60.

If I was buying a repowered coach I would automatically discount the price I would pay versus a factory install.  How do I know the fabricator did as good a job as the factory would on installing a Series 60?

I'm not saying don't install a Series 60 for yourself, but don't install it for the next owner.  It almost never makes sense to install something based on future resale value unless you want it yourself.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 12:27:17 PM »

Z,

Well, it's doable. It's been done by several of the owners on this board. The guys with the Autoshift seem happy and so do the ones with the B500's so its more of what you want. Personally I would go with the Fuller Autoshift. It does not require alot of plumbing for cooling, but you may need to find some clutch linkage to run the length of your coach. If you really want to increase the resale you probably should go with the Allison.

You may be close to $20,000 for the right engine and transmission. I would buy a complete wreck so you get the crossmembers and all the wiring. I know that DD changed Greyhounds DDEC units from DDEC2 to DDEC3 for some reason back in the day, so the wiring may be interchangable up to a point. You may not be able to use any of the cross members, but you will know what they look like going the wreck route. I would not even try this without a complete wreck to pull parts from.

I think the radiator will be OK. The 2 stroke probably needs more cooling than the 4 stroke.

The power curve and torque comes in at a lower RPM with the 4 stroke, so you will want to change the rear gear to get any benifit from the 4 stroke. Some are making power clear down at 1200 RPM, not even close to the 2 stroke.

I don't know how much of this you can do yourself. If you do it all, you may get by for around $35,000. Otherwise, I would guess around $50,000, but thats probably a little low.
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 12:44:43 PM »

I personally wouldn't go with a Series 60 old enough to have a DDEC II.  Mine is a 1995 and I have a DDEC III.  The older Series 60 likely won't have the updates like the newer head bolts if it is that old.  (Ask Jim Shephard about the updated head bolts!)
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
zxzx9r
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 01:28:49 PM »

Well I was thinking about the 12.7 60 series and do the wire changes to the dedec 4. And as far as the resale, Im not planning on selling it. It would be worth more to me not for someone eles. I might just put a new 6 speed allison and leave the 8v92.
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belfert
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 03:26:14 PM »

I'm not sure what you gain by going to a 6 speed Allison with an 8V92.  You still have the heat and low torque issues.

Your other post specifically mentioned the resale going way up, but if you're not ever selling it shouldn't matter.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 03:35:52 PM »

zxzx9r;

I have a 95 gillig country coach with an 8V92TA and the HD4060 6Sp with 4:56 gears, I love it. now I do tune the engine my self but I get 8.8-8.9 out on the open road at 68mph. out here in cal I go up most hills at 55-60 mph with out any troubles. I pull my 7400lb 03 Chevy 3500 4x4 crew cab dully from time to time and I still get 8.5 mpg.

If you change to a 60 engine and 6Sp Allison trans you will need to change the rear end gears and if you keep the 8V92 and change the trans to the 6Sp Allison you need to change rear end gears

Hope this helps

Don
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luvrbus
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2009, 03:48:06 PM »

Belfert, how much torque do want it is not that hard to get 1400 to 1550 lbs from a 8v92 the new DD13 isn't much better   

good luck
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zxzx9r
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2009, 03:52:42 PM »

What is a 8V92TA and the HD4060 6Sp with 4:56 gears? What is the differance from the 8v92 and the 8v92ta? What is the gross weight of you coach? Will this pachage go in a 90 prevost?
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