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Author Topic: tag axle update  (Read 3545 times)
busshawg
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« on: August 19, 2009, 07:39:51 AM »

Just a small update. I think I finally have some movement!! Maybe all that running around helped this summer. I took the tag wheel off, took the shock off and placed a jack between the shock mounts and started applying pressure. It was getting late and dark last night but I just had to try. To my surprise the tag started moving down. Not smoothy by any stretch of the imagination but never the less it moved several inches. I placed the jack underneith to try to jack it back up but it did not move, only the bus itself started jacking up. That's when I called it a day. So I do believe (hope) I will have this problem resolved within the next few evenings.

Grant
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Grant
John316
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2009, 11:42:07 AM »

Congratulations. I hope that you can get it completely resolved soon.

Thanks for the update.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2009, 02:12:14 PM »

Thats great news, maybe it's like my left hip in the morning.  Cheesy
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busshawg
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2009, 02:26:32 PM »

I hope it not like my right hip! ha ha, it never seems to let up. I have heard these tag axle frames are prone to cracking, do you guys know exactly where to look?
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Grant
JackConrad
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 06:51:32 AM »

Ours craked where the upper mount attaches to the main bus frame.  I did not get any photos before I did the repair, but here is a photo of the finished repair before the undercoating was applied.   Jack
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busshawg
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 10:24:10 AM »

Thanks Jack, pics speak a thousand words, mine look pretty good so far.
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Grant
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 07:37:49 PM »

Grant,

There was a KNUT on here that had a similar problem.  Maybe a year ago but I don't do dates very well.  He had his stick in the up position and he overfilled the air bags and it stayed right there.  I never heard how he resolved it.  It would seem obvious that the main support arm bushing was frozen.  I don't think that would be a job for anything but a fully equipped shop.  But what do I know?  Maybe luvrbus knows how to resolve this with a 7/16 ths box wrench and a condom.  I hope you get more advice from those that know.  Search for tag ax. and see what comes up.  Try the GM board, also.


Is there any way to inject PB Blaster into the bearings/bushings on the tag suspension arm?  Maybe remove a zirc, fill the chamber with PB and then shoot grease in and repeat?  I think this can only happen if the bearings are DRY.

Wish I could be of more help.

John
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Len Silva
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2009, 08:22:49 AM »

I have an idea  Huh.  Strictly off the top of my poor head, no experience here.

How about if you replace the Zerk with the appropriate fittings and connect some air line tubing to it.  Fill the tubing with the solvent of your choice and connect it to an air compressor.  Just leave it hooked up at 100 psi or so for hours or even days. Repeat as necessary. Might help to break it free.
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busshawg
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2009, 08:27:21 AM »

Sounds like a real good idea Len , but it is now starting to take grease. Therefore I think it would all just drain through the portion that isn't seized, as there is grease coming out around about half of the clamp section now. But at this stage of the game I may just give it a try. I have had it up and down about 30 times or so and it is starting to get easier, Thanks for the brain storming Len, I sure to appriecate it and will probably try something like what you have mentioned, would help flush it.
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Grant
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 07:41:37 PM »

On tag structure failure points, did some looking on the weekend, no camera....

The shock mounting points rip out, same with the chain hook mount, the tag assembly cracks where they mount to the frame/airbeam surface, the sideways crook on the corner where they start to aim down on the angle rots out...

Pretty much anywhere and everywhere needs some reinforcement. Not the best design or execution, from a historical viewpoint. Perhaps a thicker gauge of metal to start out with? oh well...

To give you an idea, the big truck and coach body shop near here calculated that they used to keep 3 men employed full time doing tag axle rebuilds, it was a sad day as those vintage coaches ended their commercial days, as one by one, those budgeted jobs vanished. It was a good money maker.

My parts bus suffered a tag structure collapse while under way, sewer grate on a city road crumpled it up into the wheel well, on a road test with the mechanic!  Tire rubbing on the inner fender, alignment all off. Pull the wheel, shut off the tag suspension air to that side, service truck and jack forced the scrap high enough to chain it, sort of,  to get it back to the shop, and cut it all off, pull the tag axle out, and throw it in the baggage bin, where it still resides.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Len Silva
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 06:00:50 AM »

One thing I would try at that point, if your conversion is complete, is to remove the tag wheels and weigh the bus.  You may well find that you don't need them at all.  I know that it was done with Eagle buses at one time.
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 06:07:28 AM »

Don't know what would happen if the tag axle was removed from an MCI, but I can say that with the air released from the tag axle air bgas, the handling is much worse.  Jack
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Stormcloud
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 06:12:03 AM »

Unfortunately removing the tags isn't a good choice for an MCI.
The tags increase pressure on the steering axle, and without the tags ( or with no air in the tag axle bags) the steer axle is lighter than normal and there can be a lot of wandering. I experienced this when the air was inadvertently let out of the tags before our May trip. I thought something in the steering had gone to crap over the winter, but when I realized the tag bags weren't inflated and corrected that, the steering improved immensely.

Since the bushing is gradually taking lube, it may be OK once the lube gets worked around.

Regards.

Mark
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Mark Morgan    near Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
1972 MCI-7     'PapaBus'  8v-71N MT654 Automatic
busshawg
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 07:03:50 AM »

Thanks once again guys, I don't believe removing the tires or axle is a option for me. The drivers side works perfectly, and the passenger side is SLOWLY getting better. It seems the rear half of the clamp area just isn't taking much, if any grease. Because the other half is greasing very well the applied grease just wants to squeeze out at the portrion. I did apply some heat last night, not alot, just enough to heat the grease up and the axle moved quite easily, still needed to use a jack but it had very little resistance. Enough to get me all excited, haha. After cooling back down it was back to the way it was. The progress is, when I first started I actually broke a chain trying to pull the axle back up, this was with a jack underneith holding a good portion of the buses weight! Now it shows some movement with only a jack, not full movement but never the less movement. I believe when the rear portion of the clamp is flushed with new grease it will operate as it should. I very thankfull the frame looks good. That is where I had the chain hooked onto to pull it together when the chain actually broke.
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Grant
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 07:43:45 AM »

busshawg...to get grease work it ways around the moisture & dried grease (dirt) faster. Is to back up over & return over a 2x4 a few times. Now try 2x4+1"wood a few times. When working well it should be able to over 4x4 with out sticking up.

Keep greasing after 3 time until clean grease shows.

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

BTW...drive both the dual & tag over the bump that will give double action to the tag.
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