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Author Topic: Water pump ideas.  (Read 4296 times)
Chaz
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« on: September 01, 2009, 07:46:16 AM »

Hey guys,
  I am taking my "baby" to Auburn this Thursday for the Car Auction they have there yearly. It's older than Barrett-Jackson but basically the same.
  Anyway, I go past a place called Ickes RV Surplus and was going to see if he had any water pumps i can pick up. I have a Shurflo 2.8 gallon, 45 psi pump but, even I, at 50 years old now, can pee harder than that.
 
  I know we chatted about this some time earlier but would another pump of the same size, connected in ?series/parallel? be a good fix?? Or.............HuhHuh I got this pump from him so I assume he may have another one.

I have to say, altho a few of you guys really like the big buck electronic units, I don't have the "cake" for that right now. So I was wondering how to make do with what I got without too much more expense.

Also, I bought an Oxygenics shower head that is supposed to be the hot ticket for saving water and still giving you a good shower but it seems as tho it doesn't like the pump pressure or something. It only trickles out. Hmmmmm........

Anyway, what do you think?Huh?
Thanx again!!
    Chaz

  p.s. By the way, if any of you are in the area of Northern Indiana and like/love cars, etc. The Auburn auction is WAY worth seeing.
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 08:20:08 AM »

Others can better answer the series/parallel question, although I think it would have to be parallel.  As long as pipe sizes were sufficient, that would increase the gpm.

What I wanted to mention is that it might just be your pump isn't working well or have a flow restriction somewhere in the line.  I have the same pump you do and it gives us good flow and pressure to one fixture at a time.  If I try to run water at two fixtures simultaneously, that is quite a different story.

On the flow restriction line of thought, what size lines do you have?  Especially regarding the line from the tank to the pump.  How long is the line from the tank to the pump and is the pump level with the bottom of the tank or is it above the tank?  (on my installation the pump is level with the bottom of the tank, so gravity helps out)
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FloridaCliff
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 08:21:04 AM »

Chaz,

Is it just the shower head that has the trickle or everywhere?

I found the best little shower head.  I was walking around Walmart and found this little shower head in there tiny plumbing section.  Small chrome nozzle with a little wire flip handle that shuts off the water supply.  I am not generally a big fan of these, but the reduced orifice and spray pattern really made it feel like a high pressure shower and the nozzle shut off was nice for conserving water when dry camping.

Check it out.

Cliff
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Chaz
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 08:31:55 AM »

Thanx guys. I will check that all out. But putting the pump at the bottom of the tank seems to make sense. Too bad I don't have the room for it.  Angry

The other fixtures "seem" to be ok, at least it's not just a trickle.

I think I'm stuck with the shower head I bought, and, it is supposed to save 70% of the water - so they say. I was thinking it might be culprit as it may need more pressure to operate.

Thanx again,
    Chaz
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 08:34:53 AM »

Chaz,

Pull the shower head off and remove the water saver orifice and then try it.

There also maybe something stuck in the orifice.....its a small hole.

I also plumbed my pump down low.

Cliff
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 08:37:43 AM »

Chaz,

When you stop at Ickes', you might check and see if he has an accumulator tank. That would help.

Mounting the pump low is good too......those pumps push better than they pull
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 10:52:33 AM »

Chaz,

The way to save shower water is to have the shower head on a flex hose with a shutoff.  I would use an awful lot more water if I couldn't apply the water to the area of my bod I was rinsing.  I don't think there is an alternative.

With the on off feature you control the time the water is on and you control the rate with the shower knobs.  Don't get stuck with a "miser shower" as they use a re-stricter or very tiny head holes.  The water in an RV is full of solid crap for reasons I don't understand.  All of my aerator heads on my faucets plug up daily...it seems and a low volume shower would suffer the same fate.

Put your shower head in your house where it can run on 90psi as per design.

I had your pump for many years and it was adequate for single faucet use.  I lived alone in the RV at that time.

The second pump gets plumbed into the system in parallel to the  first pump.  Each has a check valve function so when one fails the other functions as a hot spare.  Both will not run at the same time till the first can't maintain more than 35 pounds or so....in the spec sheet as turn on pressure.  I never had an accumulator cause they only reduce the pulses in the plumbing and don't generate more flow for more than a few seconds at best.

My plumbing is 3/8Th's copper tubing and at the joints it is a little more restricted.  My runs are 15 feet and I have not a bit of problem with flow or pressure.  My hot runs a little slower than my cold, as expected.

HTH,

John
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Chaz
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 07:17:23 PM »

Thanx guys.
 Unfortunately I can't mount my pump low, so I guess the best is to use two. I will check out the orifice Cliff. But why do they need to be so dang small??

I tried to find a new knob set-up at Lowes and HD today but no luck. Nothing with knob holes 4" on center. I called Ickes and they have them. I hope they have better than the cheap little plastic deal I have. I'd like to change but there are already 4" on center holes in the wall.

I do have the shut off valve as well John. I use it, but hate it.  Angry  I thought I was done with "Navy Showers" when I got out of the Navy. But at least i have a shower.  Wink  I also want to do some sort of creative plumbing sending the initial cold water from the hot side back to the tank. Should be interesting.  Roll Eyes

  Thanx again dudes,
    Chaz
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 06:25:10 AM »

Chaz,

You need to add a small tank to give you the pressure while the pump is doing its job, I also think the pipe size needs to be checked, mine goes into the water tank using 1" pipe comes out of the tank with 1/2" then as the pipes go up to each faucet and shower its 3/8". I see now why my buddy who did the conversion did to increase the pressure.

John
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 07:29:49 AM »

It is especially important to use a larger size line between the fresh water tank and the pump. As wild bob said, these little pumps push better than they pull.  So you want to make it as easy as possible for them to get the water.  On mine I've got 1/2" CPVC throughout.  (copper is great, but not within my budget)

If I was setting up to support use of more than one fixture at a time then I would go with 3/4" or 1" from the tank to the pumps and have dual pumps and an accumulator tank.

The accumulator tank's most obvious benefit is it stops the "pulsing" effect.  But I believe it can also improve pump life.  I've read in a few posts that the part of these pumps most prone to failure is the internal switch that turns the pump on and off.  When running less than full flow the pump turns off and on repeatedly (the pulsing) thus increasing the wear on the switch.  With an accumulator tank, the pump cycles on and off much less often.
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belfert
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 09:56:52 AM »

Don't buy an RV type accumulator tank unless space is at a premium!  Lowes and Menards along with Farm and Fleet places carry small 4 to 6 gallon accumulators for wells that are about $40 if you have the room.  (I seem to recall Home Depot not having them.)
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 10:32:53 PM »

I use two of the Shurflo Whisper Quiet pumps with standard on/off pressure switch-of which the factory rep said the standard on/off switches are as reliable as a truck.  Compared to the variable speed sensors that are finicky to any dirt or voltage spikes. I haven't had any problems with my two Shurflos in 14 years and they just about turn on and off at the same time.  They are plumbed in parallel-so I can use one for one faucet and both on when I want to run the kitchen sink and have someone shower at the same time.  Works well.

Chaz- Like someone else said-use the shower head with a shut off with 6ft hose.  You'll save more water with a shut off, rather then trying to make a low flow head work on low pressure.  I like the one we bought from CW- it has good water flow for rinsing off with only 45 psi.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 05:01:52 AM »

One source of junk in water lines in RV's in general is from the hot water heater if you have one that features  an anode, and you've ever used RV antifreeze to winterize.  RV antifreeze causes the anode to disintegrate, and the resulting mess is almost impossible to clean out.

Brian
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 10:50:25 AM »


I found the best little shower head.  I was walking around Walmart and found this little shower head in there tiny plumbing section.  Small chrome nozzle with a little wire flip handle that shuts off the water supply.  I am not generally a big fan of these, but the reduced orifice and spray pattern really made it feel like a high pressure shower and the nozzle shut off was nice for conserving water when dry camping.

Cliff

I found one like Cliff is using, at the local HD store.

The variable flow head has turned my already great shower, into a perfect shower.

HTH

Jay
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Chaz
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2009, 07:43:58 AM »

HeyGuys,
  Well, I'm back from the auction. I came back early, mainly because of my "camping neighbor". A 5th wheeler that has a loud contractors generator sitting outside his trailer.
  Actually, that is why I pulled in by him and faced my bus the wrong way so our generators could face each other. I figured it would be better to be by someone who has the same noisy equiptment. Birds of a feather, I guess.  Wink  I hate to bother people.
  Anyway, figuring we could both tolerate each other I adhered to common campground courtesy and only used mine to charge my batteries. He ran all day. No problem.
  Then at night, I thought 9:00 would be a good "quiet time"....... Not him.
   9:30 I went to take a shower figuring by the time I was out he would be shut down....... Not to be.
  I went to bed thinking he would turn it off soon........Ha. Silly me. I rolled around and was finally sleeping - I think - and at about 11:30 my CO2 detector goes off!!!!!!!!!!   Mind you, I am COMPLETELY shut down............ but his gen is still running. So I figure that is the culprit and I go out and move it so as to hopefully not get the fumes. Seemed to work.
  12:30......still can't get back to sleep so I go out and shut the noisy s.o.b. off. (I also put the switch back in the "ON" position so maybe he'll think it ran out of fuel.) And finally go back to sleep, being throughly P.O.ed.
  Next morning, 6:30 I wake up and it's on again. Damn. I was planning on enjoying a little more sleep and relax time as I really need it. Not to be. So I got up and went about my day and enjoyed the cars and other vehicles and some good talk with other bus fans and came home early so a to not have to deal with inconsiderate neighbors. I did mention it to the guy at the gate when I left and he seemed concerned, but, who knows.
  It might have been interesting to stay in another spot and see what the guy in the "BIG beautiful Prevost" that pulled in next to me, on the other side, would feel about it, but if I was pulling stakes, I was hitting the road. It would not be worth the 50 bucks to camp in another spot to find out. By the way, that is dry camping, in an open rough hilly field.

  Anyway, 'nuff o' that.

  I did stop by Ickes Surplus and, as my girlfriend says, "shopped".  Grin Grin Grin Love it!! I got another pump and plan on doing the parrallel thing. A few other trinkets and ideas also.
  BUT, I did find out what my water pressure problem was........... color me dumb............ The previous owner had one of the cut off valves on the shower hose but it wasn't a knob. It twisted and looked like part of the handle and I never noticed it. Duh... So the new hand held works fine.  Roll Eyes  (bonehead, I know)
  But I still have two issues to fix:
  1) When the pump cycles on and off, so does the hot and cold temp coming out of the shower head. Kind of sux, ya know.
  2) Also, when the pump comes on and off, so does the radio. I know we have discussed this before, I'm just not sure what to do yet. Think the second pump would hurt or help this?

  So anyway, thanx for listening. By the way, I seen one other GMC (4104??) an MCI from No. Ohio who's owner is a great guy, a couple Eagles and a buttload of "Pretty Prevosts". The two gorgeous Flxible's, also from No. Ohio (the MCI owner knew them) weren't there this year. They are really cool pieces.

   later guys,
      Chaz
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