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Author Topic: What is a good solenoid to use with 24 DC for connectiong house and chassis?  (Read 2630 times)
belfert
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« on: September 23, 2009, 06:00:08 PM »

I need to find a 24 volt DC solenoid to connect my house and chassis electrical systems.  Will the White-Rodgers 586-114111 work?  I am concerned because there are several warnings about not using it at over the rated 24 volts.  For a use in a 12 volt vehicle they recommend a 15 volt solenoid instead.

I have a solenoid for my air conditioning that isn't being used, but it is doing screwy things.  The connection to the house batteries is feeding power back into the bus even when the bus is off.  I took the connections off the solenoid and the solenoid shows open when the power is off.  I don't know if the power is feeding back through the coil or what.  I just figure starting over might be better.

The power feed I am using is only active when the bus is running.  The power feed to the air conditioning solenoid apparently comes off another relay/solenid, but I still want to be able to control the connection with my own solenoid.

I am asking about this solenoid because Grainger has it.  If anyone has a different solenoid I can get quickly I am all ears.

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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 06:22:22 PM »

Brian, any good 300 amp continuous duty solenoid Na pa has them for 25 bucks or if you want a fancy one 200 bucks for a marine type



good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 06:25:57 PM »

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« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 07:03:56 PM by belfert » Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 06:33:12 PM »

Do you want me to go buy one and send it to you for 25.00.  You do this every time when I try to help so do what ever pleases you  FWIW you can buy one from Prevost for 25  bucks or less
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belfert
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 07:01:06 PM »

I'm happy to buy one from Napa for $25.  You happen to have a part number?  I am going there tomorrow regardless if the price is $25 or $50.  I don't quite understand how Napa can sell one for half the price of everyone else, but they might surprise me.

I don't doubt that Prevost has one for $25, but I don't have time to order one right now.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 07:03:01 PM »

Do you want me to go buy one and send it to you for 25.00.  You do this every time when I try to help so do what ever pleases you  FWIW you can buy one from Prevost for 25  bucks or less

My sincerest apologies for my original post.  I'll delete it.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2009, 08:27:31 PM »

If the NAPA one doesn't work out, I used one from Grainger last year for connectiing house and coach batts on a friend's MC9.
I'd have to look up the number. It was about $75, though.
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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2009, 08:31:42 PM »

Sort of related to this thread - what is the type of solenoid that only uses current to switch the contacts versus using current to hold the contacts open or closed. That would seem to be a better type of solenoid for my use. Any ideas of where those are available in the 250 - 300 amp range and what they might cost?
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2009, 08:52:14 PM »

... Napa has them for 25 bucks ...


Clifford, do you happen to know the brand and model for that?  I've been recommending the White-Rodgers for close to $100, and I'm happy to start sending people to Napa instead if they have one that works.

Sort of related to this thread - what is the type of solenoid that only uses current to switch the contacts versus using current to hold the contacts open or closed. That would seem to be a better type of solenoid for my use. Any ideas of where those are available in the 250 - 300 amp range and what they might cost?


The manufacturer is Intellitec.  They are commonly used on commercial RVs for battery disconnects; I've found them in the RV surplus places occasionally for a decent price.  If you order them list, they are pricey.  They come in 100-amp and 200-amp sizes.  Google "Intellitec Battery Disconnect" and you'll find plenty of sources.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.Blogspot.com
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2009, 09:00:04 PM »

I made this recommendation while responding to your last post a couple weeks ago.

I have been using for the past 9 years, with no problems, connecting my start and house batts for charging:

Cole-Hersee
part number:  #24144
Continuous Duty 200A
24VDC

How about $35.14 ??
Your link:  http://www.ase-supply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CH-24143
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 01:56:57 AM »

Belfert,

Reading your post I was thinkin' that you might relook at your existing A/C relay from your coach. You mention it is doing screwy things, but that relay is built like a tank.
I see others have sourced 24V 200A continous duty relays, and have demonstrated years of sucess, but me thinks the coach relay is substancially heavier.  I know 24V 200A continous is just that, but I pulled a cole hersey out as it was nearly welded on mine, I did stretch the spring, reassembled, reinstalled and utilized until I switched to the coach A/C relay I was not using any longer. From my industrial electrical experience, I do not believe that a 200A continous duty relay for $30.00 will hold up, as well. The coach relay is I believe about $400 new, $200 used. I am not trying to spend more of your money.
I would suggest a bench test of that coach relay, as you might spend some money & time to find the same problem existing with the new relay. I am saying this from my personal (shameful) experience.

Good Luck,
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belfert
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 03:58:55 AM »

I was going to do more research on the solenoid in my coach, but the label on the solenoid broke into a bunch of pieces when I touched it.  It is a White-Rodgers. 

The solenoid is fed by two 90 amp circuits for a total of 180 amps.  I was figuring a replacement might be in order since it is doing screwy things.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2009, 04:36:29 AM »

The solenoid is fed by two 90 amp circuits for a total of 180 amps.  I was figuring a replacement might be in order since it is doing screwy things.

I don't understand. What do you mean by, "... fed by two 90 amp circuits for a total of 180 amps."?

All you are trying to do is connect the coach batteries with the house batteries, correct?

So you have a large (2/0 ga) wire running from the the coach batteries to one side of the solenoid, and an equally large (2/0 ga) wire running from the house batteries to the other side, correct?

And you have a small switched hot wire going from one of the banks (probably coach batts) to one side of the solenoid coil, and a ground on the other side, correct?

Nothing funny about that. What am I missing?

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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 04:44:01 AM »

The manufacturer ran two smaller circuits to the selenoid instead of a larger wire.  Each wire is protected by an auto reset 90 amp circuit breaker.  The solenoid is turned on/off by a switch on the dash that turns the A/C and heat on and off.  It is not always on.

I looked it up in the parts manual and the solenoid is only 100 amp which is why it seemed small.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 04:47:24 AM »

The manufacturer ran two smaller circuits to the selenoid instead of a larger wire.  Each wire is protected by an auto reset 90 amp circuit breaker.  The solenoid is turned on/off by a switch on the dash that turns the A/C and heat on and off.  It is not always on.

I looked it up in the parts manual and the solenoid is only 100 amp which is why it seemed small.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought this was the solenoid you already had hooked up as a battery crossover that is doing screwy things.

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Craig Shepard
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belfert
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2009, 04:53:58 AM »

The manufacturer ran two smaller circuits to the selenoid instead of a larger wire.  Each wire is protected by an auto reset 90 amp circuit breaker.  The solenoid is turned on/off by a switch on the dash that turns the A/C and heat on and off.  It is not always on.

I looked it up in the parts manual and the solenoid is only 100 amp which is why it seemed small.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought this was the solenoid you already had hooked up as a battery crossover that is doing screwy things.

This is the old A/C solenoid that I am trying to use as a battery crossover.  Now that I realize it is only 100 amp rated I need to replace it anyhow.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2009, 08:29:39 AM »

I found a Cole-Hersee 24144 Solenoid at a place about a mile or two from home.  $45, but no shipping and they have them in stock.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2009, 09:27:04 AM »

I would like to suggest that you have a way to operate the cross over solenoid from the house battery.  However simple or complicated you want to make it, it would be nice to be able to connect both systems even if the bus batteries are too low to operate the solenoid.
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2009, 08:43:49 PM »

Attach two low amp steering diodes (1N4004 to 1N4007) to the solenoid.  Anode of one diode to house batt side of the solenoid, anode of the other diode to the engine batt side of the solenoid.  Tie the two diode cathodes together (the end with the band), and send that wire to the new "boost" switch.  Typically on the dash.  Fuse it at the diodes.  Put a wire on the other terminal of the boost switch and send it back to the positive control lead on the solenoid.  Tie the negative control lead to ground.

When you close the boost switch it will utilize the greater voltage from either set of batteries to close the solenoid.  Usually a spring loaded toggle switch is used.  You can use a low current push button switch.  A typical DPST toggle switch is not recommended since you may leave it "on" and drain the charged set of batteries.  Leaving you with two sets of discharged batteries.  

My solenoid connects whenever the engine is running.  It automatically disconnects the two sets of batteries when gen runs or on shore power, whether engine is running or not.  If all else fails, I can manually connect/disconnect via a 500 amp switch.

FWIW  Chuck

« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 08:45:44 PM by Chuck Newman » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2009, 05:24:04 AM »

see-->

http://commerce1.cera.net/tacbusparts/sections/catalog/catalog.asp?cat_id=70

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/solenoidrelay.html


Another trick - buy 2 12 volt solenoids - put the coils in series for 24 volts and put the contacts in parrallel to double the current carrying capacity

with the coils in series - if one solenoids coil opens (coil falure) - the other solenoid will not energize to handle the full load.  (kind of built in safety ??) 
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« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2009, 06:44:20 AM »

My plan is to hook the coil up to a power source that is only active when the ignition is on.  It will still have a switch too.  If I hooked it to the house batteries the selenoid coil could draw power all the time.

An overrise to jump the bus will have to come later.  I can always rig something in an emergency.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2009, 09:44:43 AM »

An overrise to jump the bus will have to come later.  I can always rig something in an emergency.

My thought exactly.  Once you have the heavy cables run to the solenoid the emergency rig is pretty simple - bolt the cables together IOW.  I can't see going to a bunch of bother setting up a switch to control the solenoid for a once in a lifetime event that you hope will never happen.
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