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Author Topic: UPDATE -- Shepherd Engine Saga Cont  (Read 4993 times)
rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« on: October 09, 2009, 10:54:15 AM »

{{{UPDATE:  Down this thread a bit (on page 2) you will see a post dated 11/17/09 that updates the saga}}

Hi folks.  Sorry to keep beating this engine issue to death, but I have a serious problem with the folks that tore my engine down.  For background:  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=12915

I have decided to go with the engine I bought in Utah and need to get my engine back from the DDC dealer that tore it down.  I need to get the engine back, as it has several new parts on it (turbo, air compressor, water pump, etc.)  In addition, my engine mounts are also attached.  

They sent me an invoice for $1950.  That is supposed to be for tearing the engine down and some basic inspection.  At $120 per hour that is 16 hours and the engine was delivered to them out of the bus!

I have written them to say that amount is not acceptable.  It has been a week since I wrote them and did not hear back.  I just called them and they said that they would go back to the flat rate manual and charge me the amount for tear down and inspection.

I would like to see if someone has access to a DDC flat rate manual for a Series 60 and see what it says.

BTW, we are home until I get the bus done.  I am currently building a large "gin-pole" hoist (two pole rig mounted on a fabricated frame mounted on two trailer axles).  Some of the parts will be from the hoist I made to lift the original engine off the trailer - see photo.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 04:39:17 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
gumpy
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 12:03:57 PM »

Check your email...
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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 02:31:47 PM »

JIM, I am at Stewart and Stevenson in El Paso as we speak and Edmund said the only flat rate they have is for repairs made under warranty for DD to pay them.                                                                               That is a high shop rate in Denver it is 95.00 per hr here in El Paso he also said 10 hrs would be about normal for the tear down and inspection and make ready for tanking.                                                                                                       He suggests a set down with the service adviser,BTW I am having a fuel pump replaced that is giving me problems and they are doing it under warranty and it is almost 2 years old hope you get lucky too.              good luck                                                        
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 02:34:37 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 06:10:35 AM »

Craig thanks for the email information.

Clifford, thanks for the reply.  I am surprised at the 10 hour figure.  They quoted 40 hours total for the rebuild including putting it on the dyno.

I delivered the engine in a condition that they did not have to mount it on a stand or do any additional work other than the tear down.  They pulled the head, pan, liners/pistons/rods and that is all.  That was enough for us to see the damage.

Anyone else care to venture a guess as to the time involved?

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Dreamscape
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 07:27:42 AM »

Jim,

I can't offer advice cause I've never done it. But with what you said, you had it ready for them. Sounds like a stroke job to me. Sad

Good Luck and maybe you'll get better results.

Paul
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 07:36:24 AM »

A good mechanic with S60 experience and all the right tools at hand ( hoist to pull up the head beside him ready to use, the right doodad to push the liners out, etc), should have that done in a shift. Maybe they gave it to an apprentice and he took 2 days and they charged you for it...

I don't have any experience with the S60, but doing my 4-71 last winter was the easyest part of the operation. What takes time is pulling/reinstalling the engine out of the bus, getting the skidsteer lined up with chains to pull up the head, figuring out how to do this or that without the special tools, going to your friends to borrow the tools you don't have, etc.

10 hrs sounds more reallistic and honest than 16.

Take care,

JC
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JC
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RJ
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 01:14:36 PM »

Jim -

A pro shop is going to have all the right tools, major ones being air-powered.

I mention this only because 'way back when, I could pull a late model Corvair into my garage at 8 am, and when I broke for lunch at noon have the powertrain out of the car, the transaxle separated from the engine, and the engine completely torn down on my workbench - using air powered tools.  Four hours, max.

With your engine being delivered on a stand that the shop could work off of, I'd have to agree with Paul.  Four to six hours would be about right to tear it down as far as they did.

You might ask to see the mechanic's time ticket stampings on the back of the work order. . . and if they refuse, tell them it will be included in the discovery subpoena after you talk with your lawyer.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 01:16:13 PM by RJ » Logged

RJ Long
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2009, 03:29:41 PM »

RJ, you are way too cool for most of us. I can tell you don't cut many corners.

NCbob
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2009, 05:10:30 PM »

Jim

If you have a fax available, type up a description of what state the engine was delivered in what you want dismantled and checked (make it look professional) and fax it to several DD shops. Call them to follow up and ask for a written estimate. Send me a copy and I can get one of your bids,
Average them out. Then go sit down with the Service manager, if he does not agree go up the ladder, Manager, owner.etc. I know you need the engine and parts back so don,t play hard ball just work your way though it.

John
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rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2009, 07:12:08 PM »

Just a quick update.  I was able to talk to the branch manager at Stewart Stevenson.  I then followed up with a complete documentation of the details.  He said:  "I am prepared to further discount this invoice by an additional 2.5 hours in the name of goodwill.  I hope you find this agreeable".  That brings the ransom down to $1600!!!  Unbelievable!

As I have noted, I have what I hope is a good used/rebuilt engine to put back in the bus.  I need my engine back to get all my parts including shallow pan and engine mounts.  Plus it has lots of new parts I added when I did the install.

When I am done with removing the parts, I will have a good builder.  I am wondering if I should try to negotiate returning the engine as a builder to them to reduce the bill.  What are builders worth?  It started life as a '96 12.7 DDEC III.

Also have my 6V92 with a cracked head.  I wonder if they would be interested in that engine?

Frustrated and thinking out loud.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
John316
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2009, 07:52:16 PM »

Jim,

Just an idea for you. Why not call around to some of the other DD places. WW Williams, Central power, etc. Find a manager that will listen to your story, and see what he thinks is a good price (after telling him how little work they did). Then after that, ask the manager a SS if he will agree to get this other manager involved, whoever he is....

Just thinking out loud.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2009, 09:47:13 AM »

Just a quick update.  I was able to talk to the branch manager at Stewart Stevenson.  I then followed up with a complete documentation of the details.  He said:  "I am prepared to further discount this invoice by an additional 2.5 hours in the name of goodwill.  I hope you find this agreeable".  That brings the ransom down to $1600!!!  Unbelievable!

As I have noted, I have what I hope is a good used/rebuilt engine to put back in the bus.  I need my engine back to get all my parts including shallow pan and engine mounts.  Plus it has lots of new parts I added when I did the install.

When I am done with removing the parts, I will have a good builder.  I am wondering if I should try to negotiate returning the engine as a builder to them to reduce the bill.  What are builders worth?  It started life as a '96 12.7 DDEC III.

Also have my 6V92 with a cracked head.  I wonder if they would be interested in that engine?

Frustrated and thinking out loud.

Jim

Wow, it never ends does it!
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rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2009, 11:15:13 AM »

Dave, I sure wish it would end.  I bet the group would like to be rid of my posts about my problem as well Grin (not as much as me Angry)

I have changed the title to reflect that I need input on the value of both my Series 60 and 6V92.engines as a core for rebuilding.  I might be able to use them to offset the huge cost of posting ransom for my engine.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2009, 11:19:02 AM »

Go over the branch manager....the squeaky wheel is the only solution.  Document as much as you can, post it to the owners and CC it to however else you can come up with on the company roster.   You would be amazed at what a little high profile complaining will do.
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John316
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2009, 11:43:31 AM »

If you can talk with somebody, higher up, that helps. Then sending an email, and playing the CC game (like zub said), often carries a lot of clout. That happens a lot in Corporate America. If you need something done, then you just CC the right people.

God bless,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
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