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Author Topic: where do you spray the starting fluid?  (Read 6594 times)
bevans6
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1980 MCI MC-5C




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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 06:42:06 AM »

Thanks, RJ, appreciate the specific advice.  I do have a block heater, have verified it works fine, I have pretty good 8D's and so far in mid 30's it has started with a routine of 3 seconds of crank, 10 seconds wait, starts on the third or fourth repeat (this without block heater, I'm doing tests so to speak).  I figure I am heating the combustion chambers that way.  I will try the 10 second 30 second routine as well.  So it seems normal enough per the comments.  I am going to get a trickle charger for the 8D's (actually a 10 amp three stage charger that has maintenance mode) so that whenever I have power or the gen running I can be topping them up. 

I was just confused, I read about using a little ether and I could not for the life of me figure out where to spray it.  When I use it on gas engines I take the air cleaner off and spray directly into the carb mouth, in case there is a backfire inside the air cleaner.

Cheers, all!  Off on our fall trip this weekend!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
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1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
belfert
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2009, 08:35:18 AM »

I don't use ether with my Series 60 and it seems to start just fine down to around 25 degrees.  (I have not tried at lower temps.)  I had to call roadside assistance for a jump start once and the guy wanted to use ether.  I insisted that he not use ether and it started just fine with a jump start.

Dina decided to plumb part of the passenger heating system into the spot where a block heater would install so I don't have a block heater. 
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Tenor
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2009, 09:41:10 AM »

Brian,
In case the line that was mentioned earlier is not there, look on the top of the air intake for your blower for a small hole.  Mine may have had a plug or something in it, but it's gone.  A quick little spray and then a rear start should do the job in extreme cases.  Good luck!

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
gus
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 02:26:45 PM »

Again, if you use ether directly into the air box (NOT the air intake through the filter) you need to wait a minute or so before hitting the starter. If you hit the starter right away it won't work nearly as well.

It doesn't take a lot, I would hesitate to ever squirt ether directly into the air box for even a full second. If you don't get enough the first time do the same thing again. It always starts on the second time for me, and on the first time 90% of the time.

This method eliminates 99% of the white smoke cloud I experienced the first time I tried to start it in 29* weather without ether!!

I always use ether now if the temp is 45* or below. It is quick and easy and I don't buy the naysayers who say it is bad for the engine. They don't say why it is bad? It sure is a lot easier on starters and batteries.

When warm, or when cold using ether, my 671 always starts on the first revolution. I'm never comfortable with cranking it for more than that because I know something is wrong.
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PD4107-152
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Ash Flat, AR
buswarrior
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'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2009, 03:22:31 PM »

Who has a picture of the ether cup that the gel "bombs" were stuck into?

That's the first place, if you've still got one.

just a sniff, as noted by many others.

And, you can crank that engine lots longer than 3 seconds.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2009, 07:35:55 AM »

Concerning starting a Series 60 (quite different from a two-stroke), I had a situation where we got got in a terrible snow storm.  We parked in a Wal Mart and when we woke up,it was zero! 

We have an Aqua-Hot and I fired up the engine heat circuit.  When I tried to start the engine about a half hour later it did not want to start.  It sounded like it was not cranking fast enough.  I have my start and house battery banks separated at all times (two alternators), but I have a manual plug that I can connect the two. 

I connected the batteries and started the generator.  The generator started fine, since I had run it a few times during the night and the heat soak/insulated enclosure helped. 

In any case, I left the batteries connected for a few minutes and the combination of higher voltage and warmer block did the trick.  Did not have ether with us.  Could have gone into Wal Mart, but did not need to. 

I am not a fan of ether, but it is standard procedure for many diesels in northern climates.  The truck I converted came from Canada.  It had an ether injector with an electric controlled valve.  The ether was in a tank that looked like a propane screw on tank for a torch.  It had a DT466, which is a good engine, but will not start in cold temperatures.  I have seen the same option on farm tractors as well.

One last thought.  DDEC engines are quite critical of battery voltage.  I can't quote the voltage where it will not function, but it is in the 11 volt range.  When you are starting, it is pretty easy to get a voltage drop that could bring the voltage low enough that the engine will not start (ether or not)

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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Van
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2009, 10:21:38 AM »

Bw, Heres a shot of ours
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 10:35:25 AM by van » Logged

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bevans6
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2009, 10:28:48 AM »

That helps me a lot, thank you very much indeed!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
NCbob
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2009, 03:42:43 PM »

Nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned shortening a connecting rod by using Ether! Detroit's, being 2 cycle engines really cannot tolerate too much use of Ether. Cat's and Cummins, being 4 stroke cycle engines, can tolerate it in Emergencies.

Some years ago the compounds in WD 40 were mild enough to start most stubborn diesel engines but they, for a reason unknown to me, changed the formula and it is not as effective as it once was for solving this problem.

Without question a block heater helps. It maintains a reasonable temperature in the block, isn't hot enough to open the thermostat to allow cold coolant into the block, and helps to maintain piston and ring size for easier starting.

I would recommend consulting a good 2 stroke man to help you solve your problems.

NCbob
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bevans6
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2009, 03:55:55 PM »

NCBob, thanks for your thought, which had definitely occured to me as well.  Ether has a lot of energy.  WD40 used to have a flammable propellant, which made it good for starting things.  the Stoddard solvent that is most of it isn't that flammable, if it is at all.  The safety mavens made them change it.  Liquid WD-40, which is how I buy and use it (I use a lot of it on race cars, it's my rustproofing), isn't at all flammable.

I should also say that I don't think I have a problem at all with the engine.  I've started it no problem after a 30 degree night, and it's only taken a minute or so of intermittant cranking and waiting, and then it smoothed out with about 15 seconds of running.  so as far as I know my little 8V-71 is doing exactly what we all hope they will do, acting just like it should.

Point of WD-40 interest.  I make exhaust headers from mild steel for my race  cars, and for customers, from time to time.  If you soak a hot header in WD-40 after it comes off the track, not only does it  make a lot of weirdly fragrant smoke, it soon takes on a rust proof coating a lot like a  well seasoned frying pan does.  if you spent  20 hours or $800 on a header, you really don't want it to go all rusty the first time you run  in the rain!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
gus
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« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2009, 04:33:25 PM »

Since the 4104 w/671 came from the factory with a cup for starting with ether I have no qualms about using it. If it was good enough for Trailways it is good enough for me.

The important thing is that Trailways used a controlled amount of ether with those capsules so it is important to use it sparingly.

As I said before, it works great for me and results in effortless starts in cool/cold weather. Of course cold here in the mild south is nothing like that faced by you guys in the frozen northern wasteland!!
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PD4107-152
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2009, 08:08:11 PM »

Many years ago when i started running equipment i was told that too big of a shot of ether could blow the head off of a motor. don't know how true that is but i suspect that it could maybe crack a head.
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
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