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Author Topic: My transmission scares me  (Read 3344 times)
wal1809
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« on: October 18, 2009, 07:36:18 PM »

Fellas I noticed something today and it could be me or I might be headed for the tranny shop.  I noticed if I hit the pedal pretty good on take off the tranny is smooth as silk going into 2cnd gear.  If I barely hit the fuel and let it ease into 2cnd it hits pretty hard.  Enough to where my wife asked why it was doing it so we know it is a pretty good pop.  I did it several times back and forth and it definitely hits hard on a slow take off.  All other gears it doesn't matter how how hard or soft I am on the pedal it is like silk.  I checked the fluid and it was 2 quarts low.  I filled it up and it still does the same thing with no change.

Any transmission guroos on here?  Any and all opinions are appreciated.  I thank you in advance.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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John316
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 07:45:43 PM »

What tranny do you have, pal? Ours downshifts rough into 4th, and shifts a little hard, when cold, into 2nd.

Does your do it all the time, or just when cold?

God bless,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
wal1809
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2009, 07:56:21 PM »

Allison 4 speed auto.  I guess I should have said that earlier.  It is funny what you forget when you don't do something for a long time.  I was a diesel mechanic when I was a kid.  Even went to school at TSTI for it.  I worked on street sweepers in Austin a long time ago.  I even took a transmission apart a few times and got it back together.  I for the life of could not tell which end of the transmission was up or down today.  I even forgot about some Detroits being 2 stroke.  When I saw a picture of the cylinder sleeve though it jogged me back to the days of old.

Anyhow does anyone have an idea if I am headed for a beating on this transmission maybe.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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TomC
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2009, 10:31:20 PM »

Sounds like your throttle position modulator is not working correctly.  That's why it is smooth on full throttle, but on partial throttle, since the throttle modulator is probably stuck at full throttle, the transmission shifts hard without the full throttle torque of the engine to smooth it out.  It is either a cable or air operated.  Also, if the modulator is operating properly, on partial or gentle accelerations, it should shift at a much lower rpm.  My HT740 will shift at 1500rpm, bringing the rpm down to 1000rpm on a very light shift.  Once again, if your transmission is only shifting at high rpm, your throttle position modulator is not working properly.  Good Luck, TomC
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wal1809
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 04:22:17 AM »

Thank you TomC that is some good information right there.  I don't know if it is electric or manual.  I need to find a good mechanic in the out here somewhere that doesn't have a 90 day back up.  When I get home this evening I will get under there and see what I can find out.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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belfert
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2009, 06:54:53 AM »

My B500 slams into first gear when the tranny is cold.  Once it warms up it shifts just fine.  It seemed a little better when I first switched to Transynd but that only lasted a little while.  It may have just been my imagination that things got better.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
RickB
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2009, 06:58:39 AM »

Do you know if the transmission has transmission fluid or motor oil in it? Some bus lines only ran 10/40 rotella and that stuff really needs to be warm before you start driving you bus.

just a thought.

Rick
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2009, 07:01:23 AM »

wal1809,
You need to get to know Clifford aka "Luvrbus" he is a very well known & respected busnut & Eagle lover. He is sometimes in your area, and he knows many folks in the bus world and can lead to to who/where you need if you need.
Disclaimer; Clifford is not the only Eagle busnut, or maybe not the most knowledgeable busnut, but he is very knowledgeable and knows the rest of the folks you'll want to get to know!
Also Sonnie Gray & Paul, & Doyle come to mind when it comes to TX Eagle nuts! Grin
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
wal1809
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2009, 07:06:16 AM »

This websight is the shizzle.  I tell you there is some good folks on here.  I did some reading on the TPS throttle possition sensor and it really sounds like what the problem is.  I have to get back home and get the number off of the tranny and then call for the part.  This might turn oout to be a very easy fix.
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RickB
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2009, 07:10:27 AM »

  This might turn oout to be a very easy fix.

Whoa nelly!! Careful.... the murphy's law bus dudes may be monitoring your emails!! lol.

Whenever any of us said "this might be an easy fix" the rest of us got very, very nervous for that person.

Just kidding,

RB
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johns4104s
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2009, 07:23:11 AM »

Wal1809

I have the same promlem. My MCI 9 has I think a 745 Allison  It shifts very hard from 1st to 2nd ans 2nd down to 1st. I am told it is because the 1st is very low, this transmission was built for garbage trucks, heavy duty. Several people have this transmission and have the same problem. I changed the oil to Hydro synthetic from Dallas Texas. It has made some difference.

John
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wal1809
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2009, 08:35:43 AM »

  This might turn oout to be a very easy fix.

Whoa nelly!! Careful.... the murphy's law bus dudes may be monitoring your emails!! lol.

Whenever any of us said "this might be an easy fix" the rest of us got very, very nervous for that person.

Just kidding,

RB

You know I read this and laughed out loud.  You are absolutely correct.  May the bus God's go easy on the rule violation of assumption.  I kind of got ahead of myself for being happy, thinking this could be a real easy fix.  I will correct the errors of my ways.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2009, 08:37:53 AM »

And I figured if it was shifting hard it must be working.  I never drove an Allison that DIDN'T shift hard.
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belfert
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2009, 08:45:48 AM »

It is actually better for an automatic to shift quickly and harshly.  Cars and pickups have nice smooth shifts because that is what customers expect and demand.  I had the automatic transmission in my Ford pickup upgraded to handle lots of power and towing.  It shifted pretty harshly after the upgrade and the shop said that is normal and better for the tranny.

If an Allison has been shifting nicely and the operation has changed I would start to worry a bit.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2009, 08:57:37 AM »

It's the modulator... been there, done that.  And, I'm fixin' to replace it again in the near future just to prevent a major failure as I had several years ago. 
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kyle4501
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2009, 09:26:33 AM »

There is a difference between firm shifts & hard shifts.

Firm shifts will allow the clutches to slip less (last longer) & heat the transmission fluid less.

Hard shifts lead to broken parts. Like clutches, gears, the rest of the drive train, engine mounts. . . .
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belfert
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2009, 09:34:04 AM »

There is a difference between firm shifts & hard shifts.

Firm shifts will allow the clutches to slip less (last longer) & heat the transmission fluid less.

Firm shifting is a better description of what was happening to my Ford tranny after the upgrade.  I couldn't find the right word before I guess.

I'm not sure how to determine the difference really.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2009, 10:03:54 AM »

A better trans fluid will surely help cold vs hot shifting characteristics and make it last longer, too.

When I lived in Wisconsin, during the winter, my bus wouldn't go over 50MPG foot to the floor until the auto trans, axle and engine warmed up 10 miles later- and the tires would finally become round again.

That's when I realize just how much power oil can rob and switched to AMSOIL. I shudder to think how long it took to build oil pressure,even in non-extreme temps... Shocked

 If anyone is interested I can help you buy it at wholesale, which will save alot.

Cheers,
Gary
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Cheers,
Gary

Buy your oil at true wholesale prices!:
http://www.synthetic-motor-oilsite.com/1688537
wal1809
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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2009, 10:12:16 AM »

There is a difference between firm shifts & hard shifts.

Firm shifts will allow the clutches to slip less (last longer) & heat the transmission fluid less.

Hard shifts lead to broken parts. Like clutches, gears, the rest of the drive train, engine mounts. . . .

I tend to agree with you on this one.  The shift I am experiencing when not all the way on the fuel pedal is not right. 
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2009, 10:13:51 AM »

If you have a 740 your modulator is out of adjustment do you have a air throttle some install a air throttle with the manual modulator it will work but needs a fine adjustment.
The Allision doesn't have to shift hard it is a fairly easy job to set the trimmer springs , valves and shift points when you are changing the oil.
I have a 740 and people that have rode in my bus will tell you that you don't notice it even when it goes into lockup.
When I get back to the coach I will PM my cell # we are in the Austin area often




good luck
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John316
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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2009, 12:12:24 PM »

When I lived in Wisconsin, during the winter, my bus wouldn't go over 50MPG foot to the floor until the auto trans, axle and engine warmed up 10 miles later- and the tires would finally become round again.

Cool, Gary. I would love to even get a quarter of that Cool. Got any tips, for the rest of us Grin Grin Grin. 10 MPG would be great for me.

God bless,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
wal1809
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2009, 04:42:18 PM »

Here is the info plate on the side of the tranny

This part is hanging down
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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wal1809
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2009, 08:00:53 AM »

Bump for the day.  does anyone know what that part is.  It is hanging down alongside the transmission and looks as if it has been undone for quite some time.  On the very end is coupler with threads.  It was full of grease and dirt so I know it has been there for a while.  The bus originally had a manual tranny and was later swapped with the Allison 4 speed modelMT654.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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luvrbus
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2009, 08:05:58 AM »

Wal1809, that is your problem Kim builds a great transmission but he will not adjust the trimmer springs for a smooth shift as he builds the same for different applications  
Take to Dallas Tx to Inland (Industrail Transmission) they can make it shift smooth and that part you are looking at is the speedometer drive 
good luck
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wal1809
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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2009, 08:15:34 AM »

Hello LUVRBUS  I am confused.  Who is Kim?  My speedometer does not work in the bus.  Can this one be changed to fit the Allison?  Can u pm me your telephone number.  I promise I will only pain you for a little while with questions.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2009, 08:21:14 AM »

Hello LUVRBUS  I am confused.  Who is Kim?  My speedometer does not work in the bus.  Can this one be changed to fit the Allison?  Can u pm me your telephone number.  I promise I will only pain you for a little while with questions.

The tag shows AZ transmission & engine exchange.
I told you Clifford knows any & everybody who's anybody in the bus world!
Kim would be who built your transmission @ AZ transmission & engine exchange.

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wal1809
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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2009, 09:22:00 AM »

Ahhhh you weren't BSn were you?
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wal1809
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2009, 10:15:09 AM »

I called out to AZ and spoke with Kim's son.  We talked about it and his suggestion was to attempt to adjust the air module on the side of the tranny first before taking it to a mechanic.  He said to take it off and place another o ring in there and then put it back.  SO here goes.
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2009, 10:32:34 AM »

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« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2009, 03:42:17 PM »

What a great bunch of guys!
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2009, 05:47:59 PM »

I second that on  the good guys

John
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wal1809
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« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2009, 06:03:27 PM »

As Clifford says, the picture is of your speedometer adapter housing. Your Transmission is an Allison MT654. Not a hard job to work on the modulator. Bring it up here when you come this way... we can adjust it.


Hello Dallas,  Your in Franklin correct?  I called Inland in Dallas but that is a long way.  I also didn't feel very comfortable with the service guy on the telephone.  He kept selling me on droping the tranny pan to inspect the debri in the pan and started talking about the price of a rebuild on a tranny.  I just thought that was a little out of ordinary to talk about how much a rebuild is when I am calling about adjusting a modulator.

I will be headed to Franklin on or around the 20th of November.  Let me know where your at and maybe I can jet up.  My problem is my on call schedule.  I am on call for 2 weeks and then off for two weeks.  I just came off of a 3 week on call and am a little stir crazy.  We are headed to Sommerville this weekend.

+2 on a great group of folks on this site.
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« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2009, 06:11:07 PM »

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