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Author Topic: What brand/type of oil do you use? What do you think about Synthetics?  (Read 3465 times)
Garymci5
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« on: October 18, 2009, 11:24:05 PM »

Anyone notice any differences, such as MPG, oil temp, changes in oil analysis results, less wear, etc?

Just curious, with such a wide range of coaches and people on this forum.
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Buy your oil at true wholesale prices!:
http://www.synthetic-motor-oilsite.com/1688537
belfert
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2009, 07:07:11 AM »

I haven't felt the need to pay 20+ a gallon for synthetic oil so far.  I already pay something like $15 a gallon for dino oil when I get my oil changed.  Mine is a four stroke.

Do they even make a 40W synthetic oil suitable for two strokes?  Amsoil has a 30W that claims to meet both CF-2 and CI-4+.  I am not sure I would use it if I had a two stroke, especially not at $32 a gallon.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
johns4104s
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 07:26:09 AM »

Royal Purple has a 40wt synthetic meeting the DD specs, I have run it in one of my 4104s.

John
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 08:26:01 AM »

I run synthetic in the diff and transmission.  I'm not sure why.  Originally it was recommended by a guy whose opinion I respect - same guy who lets me use his truck shop when I'm in Nipawin.  This spring I changed the oil in both and I stayed with synthetic.  The cost difference is minimal in the big scheme of things.  (and the performance difference is likely equally minimal under our usage)   Grin
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 08:40:41 AM »

I agree with synthetics in the tranny and differential.  I don't see the need in the engine unless one is going to use oil analysis to determine oil change intervals instead of going by time or mileage.  I change my engine oil once a year even though my yearly mileage has maxed out at most to 10,000 miles. 
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Garymci5
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2009, 09:51:45 AM »

I haven't felt the need to pay 20+ a gallon for synthetic oil so far.  I already pay something like $15 a gallon for dino oil when I get my oil changed.  Mine is a four stroke.

Do they even make a 40W synthetic oil suitable for two strokes?  Amsoil has a 30W that claims to meet both CF-2 and CI-4+.  I am not sure I would use it if I had a two stroke, especially not at $32 a gallon.

While it's true, that using either oil is still expensive, I'd wonder if the long term 'cost effectiveness' is a consideration?  Or other benefits: cold weather starting, increased MPG and better protection. Again, it's true that nearly all synthetics don't offer 'extended drain' capability.  One major oil co. now offers a 15K/mile gas engine oil, surely the industry will follow suite for diesel and heavy duty rigs.  However, AMSOIL has a 35K mile oil for years now.

Extended drain is currently being pioneered by AMSOIL. Their basic diesel oil goes for 25K miles, longer with oil analysis. AMSOIL doesn't offer a 40W oil, probably because it doesn't apply anymore since synthetics are so much better.  If a given oil meets the required specs, that company is willing to back their product and has proven it in ASTM testing methods. Everyone does this otherwise it won't meet API certification (as I understand it).

You could always call Amsoil and discuss the finer points of their oil and how/why it meets the specs despite not being a 40wt.

The Amsoil 15-40 diesel oil is also CF-2 rated. I chose this over the 30 weight because of technical differences, and also having used it years ago in our Eagle. At $32 a gallon it wasn't cheap to fill up on 11 gallons. But i bought it at wholesale and saved a lot (you can too). I like Amsoil because of the very high TBN, which combats crank acids, especially a problem -- in my opinion-- while sitting for periods of time.  This saves engine seals and bearings. We don't drive enough every year to even use up regular oil, sure I could change it all the time, but that's wasteful-- and it doesn't protect as well or increase MPG among other benefits.

The idea is to spend $20 a year on oil analysis and see how far we get. I'm aiming for 5 years, which will make it HALF the cost of dino/fossil oil. With how clean the oil is staying even after running up the Cascade mountains a couple times, it's off to a good start. And the engine starts GREAT.

Now I gotta get that 5 gallon bucket of gear oil into the trans for better shifting next season.

If anyone wants to buy at wholesale I can show you how I did it.  I feel that after using AMSOIL for 10 years in just about everything has proved its value to me. Kinda feel like I can't afford NOT to use it  Grin
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Gary

Buy your oil at true wholesale prices!:
http://www.synthetic-motor-oilsite.com/1688537
bevans6
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2009, 10:00:55 AM »

My recent foray into DD two stroke oil led me to believe that many modern synthetic oils can meet the viscosity range for multi-grade without viscosity improvers that can break down.  So from that point of view it's probably fine.  What I found was that the other thing that concerns two strokes is detergent additives, which are reflected as ash content.  We all know that DD two strokes like low ash content.  The reason appears to be the piston rings getting gummed up in some way that I don't quite understand.  So as far as I'm concerned the ash content is still a valid point to be aware of.

I haven't seen any synthetics that I know don't have viscosity improvers and that I have been able verify ash content except racing oils that cost upwards of $$50 a gallon, so I didn't bother to look any further.  I just put a pail and a half of Super Tech SAE40 in the beast, at a cost of $39 a pail.  I'll change it in less than 5,000 miles probably, just to make sure any condensation from the winter is out of there.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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RJ
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2009, 03:38:01 PM »

Gary -

After we had this go-round the last time you were posting about synthetics, and Amsoil in particular, I sent the company a letter, with a copy of the DD Lubrication Specs specifically for the two-strokes included, asking them if, in fact, any of their oils meet the specifications.

I'm still waiting to hear from them. . .

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2009, 05:14:41 PM »

How bout the Royal Purple Huh
http://www.ro-quip.com/Technical_Docs/Royal%20Purple/Industrial%20fluids/RP%20Motor%20Oil_ps.pdf

Says "Royal Purple 40 DD is recommended for operation with Detroit Diesel
Series 149 Two-Stroke Cycle Engines running with the percentage of fuel
sulfur less than 0.5 percent mass."    Mine is only a series 71,  Anybody running a series 149 in their bus?  Smiley


They do claim CF-2 on their 40w
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 06:44:51 PM by NewbeeMC9 » Logged

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johns4104s
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2009, 05:16:13 PM »

Send a letter to Royal Purple , they will answer you.
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Garymci5
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2009, 10:35:28 AM »

RJ-

Please pardon my seasonal approach to the topic of oil, however the question posted is straight forward.

Because a company doesn't get back to someone, concerning a question that is already answered, years ago, mind you, including tested and certified via ASTM, does not imply, as you elude to, they are hiding from anything or that it devalues any testing by Amsoil, or any other company for that matter.

Awhile back i talked with another boutique oil manufacturer and found out that their oil does not meet some standards, not because it's not good enough. But that they would have to spend tons of money to retest their oil. That's not the punch line, this is: That they would have to reforumlate the oil, detracting from it's protection, to meet the API spec-- basically down grade it, which they would not do. Call it what you will, but after using their products for 20 years, and knowing racers that do, find them to be credible.

If it will make you feel any better anyone can call the Amsoil tech line and/or email. They do have it. Try it.

I have and have always gotten answers.


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Cheers,
Gary

Buy your oil at true wholesale prices!:
http://www.synthetic-motor-oilsite.com/1688537
bevans6
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 10:46:11 AM »

Gary, what is the ash content of the Amsoil you like to use? 

Brian
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 11:01:40 AM »

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« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 04:51:25 PM by Now Just Dallas » Logged

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kyle4501
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 11:07:32 AM »

Here's my opinion -
If you sleep better using expensive oils (because you spent more, believed the hype, own stock, are a distributor, etc.), go for it.

However, for most of us here, we won't put enough miles on our rigs to see any difference no matter what oil we use as long as it meets the manufacturer's specification.

QUOTE: "That they would have to reforumlate the oil, detracting from it's protection, to meet the API spec. . ."    That sounds like marketing/ sales hot air to me. What ever happened to 'meets or exceeds' ?

If a DD 2stroke can last 400,000+ miles with the minimum required care & feeding. . . . .

Your driving habits will make a bigger impact on maintenance costs than using a "better than required" oil will.

Chemical contamination from combustion is a big factor in determining the oil change intervals, not just viscosity breakdown. . . . . even amsoil can not fight off the contamination for any longer than other quality oils.

To blatantly disregard the manufacturers requirements with a simple blanket statement of 'ours is better' should be a warning that 'they know not of what they speak".


But, as I said, this is only my opinion.
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John316
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2009, 11:12:48 AM »

We use Rottella 10W 40. Works for us Grin.

Somehow I don't think that applies Grin Cheesy Grin

Transmission is Transynd. So far so good Cool

God bless,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
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