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Author Topic: Double coin tires  (Read 5752 times)
TomC
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2009, 09:23:21 PM »

I wasn't trying so much to push the Michelins, but trying to convey that the Chinese tires have nothing more then an initial cheap price to offer.  Personally-with my butt in the drivers seat, my wife in the passenger seat, and me driving 34,500lbs (with the towed) down the road, I want the best tire under me that has been tested for traction and braking.  Not an imitation tire that "looks good" from the outside-like the Chinese tires.  The only place I would run a Chinese tire is on a trailer, and since we don't pull big semi trailers-well that pretty much eliminates Chinese tires in my book.  Good Luck, TomC
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cody
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 04:19:54 AM »

Thats what we all want Tom, a dependable safe tire under us, thats why I eliminated michelins from my personal choices, and only because of my own personal experiances, I know nothing about the chinese tires and they would scare me as well, bridgestone and yokohama seem to be my personal favorites because of the excellent service I've gotten from them.
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WEC4104
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 06:01:14 AM »

I'll admit I have zero experience with the Double Coin tires, but I have been following this thread and keep asking myself one question: "WHY are the Double Coin tires that much less expensive?"

I realize that Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone and the rest of the big boys sink serious money into advertising budgets and race sponsorships, but I can't believe it accounts for hundreds of dollars per tire. Besides, most of that promotional $ is directed toward the passenger car segment, and I'm not sure these companies require the commercial truck tire division to carry much of those costs.

So that brings me back to my original question.  I have been thinking about this from two points of view: the production cost side and the free market side.

On the production side, the costs are driven by three things:  raw materials, labor, and general overhead.  No way Double Coin gets their materials THAT much cheaper.  Michelin, Goodyear, and others each have plants in China to benefit from cheap labor as well.   Double Coin does not however, have to support the corporate infrastructures in Akron, or France. So maybe therein lies the difference.

But it's the "free market" thing that really has me questioning a Double Coin tire purchase. Double Coin is not a newcomer to the market, since they have been around for years. In our semi-free market society there has been ample time for prices to seek their natural level ala ECON101.  The only conclusion I can draw is that Double Coin sets their prices hundreds of dollars less per tire simply because they HAVE to.  I believe word spreads amongst truckers and other in-the-know tire folks, establishing the perceived value of these tires.  This has driven the market to set the Double Coin pricing to the point where it has settled.  If Double Coin users felt that these tires were nearly as good as the big boys, we would not find ourselves where we are today. Either the price would have floated closer to Michelin/Goodyear/Bridgestone, or Double Coin would be eating their lunch in the market place. Neither has happened, so apparently the market consensus (based on the huge price disparity) is that these tires are not even close to the value of the major players.

As I see it, the one glimmer of hope for the busnut purchaser of Double Coin tires is that their own needs are a bit different than the rest of the market place. Assume for a moment that the Double Coins are just as safe a tire, just as smooth riding, just as resistent to weather and cracking, but they simply wear out in less miles.  To a trucker, this would have a big affect on the tire value.  To the average busnut (some company excluded) this might be irrelevent.  Many of us will end up replacing tires based on their age long before we ever wear a set out.  So the conclusion I have drawn for myself is "Unless I can confirm that the assumptions listed above are all correct, and mileage is the only difference, the Double Coins have a true value commensurate with their price -- namely "low."  ... and my family won't be riding on them.
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Jeremy
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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2009, 06:18:07 AM »

That's an intelligent argument but doesn't distinguish between the perceived quality of the tyres (in what is an ultra-conservative, if not prejudiced, market segment), and the actual quality. It may be that Double Coin tyres are actually a very smart choice indeed, precisely because the market has set the price so low.

I'd never even heard of them before, incidentally, so I'm not attempting to make a recommendation either way.


Jeremy
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John316
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« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 06:28:11 AM »

However, with the free market system, somebody else would undercut them. Meaning, if Double Coin made a great tire, at a low price, everybody would buy them. Then the other tire manufactures would all of a sudden start dropping their prices. That is how the free market works. Somebody else builds a good product cheaper, then it puts the more expensive out of business.

The same can be for anything. A grunt laborer can't make fifty bucks an hour. Somebody else is going to come in, and work for 30 an hour, and the original is out of a job, and will work for less.

FWIW

I still love our Michilens, and Bridgestones.

God bless,

John
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junkman42
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« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2009, 06:52:16 AM »

My Brother and I each bought enclosed car haul trailers to tote Our street rods.  Both of us had complete tire failures within a couple of hundred miles!  No more chinese tires for Me unless they have an american name on them meaning they have some quality control.  If You buy a Haulmark trailer change the tires before You use the trailer period.  Regards John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2009, 06:53:25 AM »

I don't use cheaper tires but they work for people that use their coach 5 or 6 k miles a year and on a premium tire you pay for the advertisement.
 I read where Michelin paid some ad agency in NY 138 million a year for ads who pays for that ? we do as consumers that is a lot of tires people  




good luck
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2009, 06:59:49 AM »

Quote from: luvrbus
I don't use cheaper tires but they work for people that use their coach 5 or 6 k miles a year and on a premium tire you pay for the advertisement.
 I read where Michelin paid some ad agency in NY 138 million a year for ads who pays for that ? we do as consumers that is a lot of tires people  
good luck

Clifford you are so right!
As consumers & tax payers as much of the advertising is writen off on taxes!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
WEC4104
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« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2009, 08:45:54 AM »

Interesting to note that Michelin passenger car tires are produced in China by a stock holding company called Shanghai Michelin Warrior Tire (SMWT).  Up until July of this year Michelin owned 70% of SMWT, with most of the rest of SMWT (28.5%) owned by ...........   drum roll .........  Double Coin Holding Co.

In July, Michelin purchased the Double Coin shares, as well as the other 1.5%, and now completely owns SMWT.   As near as I can tell, SMWT produces the Michelin passenger car tires in China, and Double Coin continues to manufacture the truck tires separately.   The press release states however that Michelin and Double Coin continue to "collaborate".

Ref:
 http://www.michelin.com/corporate/actualites/fr/actu_affich.jsp?id=25303&codeRubrique=57&lang=FR


Also, back in May of this year, Michelin brought patent and copywrite suits against Double Coin dealers in the U.S. claiming that their RT606 model copied the tread pattern of the Michelin ZXE.


Ref:
 http://www.thetrucker.com/News/Stories/2007/5/9/Michelinfilessuitoverlook-aliketires.aspx


Ah, tis a strange world we live in....
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niles500
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« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2009, 10:16:26 AM »

Interesting - Is Michelin suing themselves  Huh
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bevans6
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2009, 10:50:57 AM »

These days I don't see where country of origin makes a bit of difference.  People do the joint-ventures, sub-contract both manufacturing and design, own multiple layers of companies and brands, to the point where all that matters is price, availability and service.  You can't even go by track record anymore, production can be moved from plant to plant, country to country, raw materials sourced from different places.

I personally think that you can find many examples of manufacturing defects and problems with tires from anywhere.  I think they are as close to a true commodity as you can find.  So price, availability, service and support from your local dealer, start to play a far bigger role than brand name for me.  I haven't bought a "brand name" tire in many years - I let my local tire dealer, who knows far more about tires than I do, choose my tires.  He is far pickier than I am about what he puts on my vehicles, believe it or not, and his track record is 100%.  My tire dealer is a funny duck, I don't know how he stays in business but he is very successful.  He torques ever lug and gives you a reminder car to come back after 100Km for a free retorque.  He stores your off-season wheels and tires for free, and swaps them for you for free spring and fall.  I race cars, he knows that, and he mounts and balances my race tires for free, even though I don't buy them from him.  I picked up a nail one day on the way to the airport, I was in a rush, he pulled the wheel off, patched the tire (from the inside), balanced it and reinstalled it, for free, even though they were the new tires on the new car and he hadn't sold me a thing for it yet!  When I need new tires for the bus, I'll just give him a call and say I need six 12R22.5's, let me know what you have and when I should come down...

Actually, coming to think about it, all the tires he's sold me in the past decade were to replace "name brand" tires that came as OEM fitment on my vehicles that had issues, failures, or otherwise had to be replaced prematurely.  I wonder what's up with that?
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WEC4104
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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2009, 12:35:45 PM »

Interesting - Is Michelin suing themselves  Huh

Well, actually no.   First off, the lawsuits deal with the truck side of Double Coin Holdings.  If I am interpreting what I am reading correctly, Michelin bought the remainder of SMWT, which is the passenger car side of Double Coin.   Secondly, Michelin chose to bring the lawsuit against the U.S DEALERS for Double Coin, which presumably is easier to handle in the courts than going through the process in China.
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2009, 07:06:09 PM »

Interesting - Is Michelin suing themselves  Huh

Niles that thar is funny! I don't care who ya are! LOL! Grin

But as I was ROFLMAO! I had to stop and think about it and laugh again!

I was sitting in court once to fight a ticket I'd gotten, and of course you ya know how ya gotta sit thru almost everybody but yerself usually. So I'm sitting here listening and this guy is in court over like $34,000 in bad checks !
When the judge asked him "how do you plead?"
He gave one word. "Insanity"
The judge gave him a funny look and said "Now listen young man this is very serious, and I advise you to think about that answer for a minute."
The guy said "I have thought about it judge, and I must of been crazy ! If you'll notice 1/2 of those checks/charges are from one of my own bank accounts were I wrote a check to myself to cover the other ones on another bank. I must of been crazy to think I'd get away with writing myself bad checks!"
By now the whole court was rolling on the floor, and even the judge had trouble keeping a straight face or falling out laughing as he BELOWED out "Order in the court! ...... The court will now pause for a 15 minute recess! Adjourning @ 2:15 PM"
It was hilarious because the whole court was blasting out laughing so hard most of us were actually crying! Also as the judge entered his chambers you could here him burst out laughing!
Once the court adjourned you could see the judge was still having trouble keeping his composure, as he said to the guy. "Young man, this is a serious matter, and I advise you to seek council before we continue this case!"
The guy responded to the judge "Sir, I respect you and your advise, but no attorney in this county will represent me, as one of the bad checks I wrote was to an attorney! And I'd really like to just get this done and over with so I can put this all behind me and get on with my life!"
The judge looked at him, smiled and said "If your sure about that, then we'll proceed. Now I want to warn you that regardless of how funny it was, your last response to the question of how do you plead was inappropriate and invalid. So how do you plead?
The guy said "Well judge I am sorry, and I guess I am guilty as charged!"
The judge then asked "well since you say you are ready to get this over with and get on with your life, are you willing and able to make restitution on all these checks, fees, and court costs?"
The guy said "Sure.........take a check?"
Again the court burst into laughter and the stood up and said "Young man I can assure you, it'll be the last bad check you write for about 20yrs if it's no good!" And walked straight into his chambers without another word! Grin

Sorry just the thought of Michelin suing themselves reminded me of this guy insinuating he wrote himself bad checks!
 Grin  BK  Grin
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 07:08:27 PM by Busted Knuckle » Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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