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Author Topic: Trying to understand oil analysis  (Read 928 times)
rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« on: November 12, 2009, 07:46:32 PM »

Hi Folks.  

I have included a PDF that shows the oil analysis for the last four samples on my damaged Series 60 plus a sample from the replacement engine.  The first four columns are for the damaged series 60.  The second data column is for the oil change before I removed the engine.  When I removed the engine (53,600 reference miles) it had ~~ 13,700 miles on the oil and filter.

When we inspected the damaged engine, there was some pretty good wear on one lobe of the cam/follower and the rod bearings had some wear damage (new ones rolled in 53,600 miles ago).  You would think something would show up in the area of tin or copper.  The Iron was a bit high as well as soot (expected given the liner/head gasket problem).  The last reading on the engine showed high sodium (no idea why).  All sample were noted as normal with the exception of the 53K sample which was flagged for high sodium

I pulled the replacement engine sample cold.  I do not know how many miles were on the oil in the engine.

So, a couple of questions.

1)  Does anyone see a flag with previous sample results (columns 2-4)?

2)  Does anyone see a flag with the replacement engine (moly seems to be higher than the old engine)?

Then the general question: what do we really do with these reports?  Is there a good document on how to interpret oil sample analysis?  I understand that it is a trend analysis, but my engine was going bad and I don't see a negative trend.

Thanks,

Jim

« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 07:50:51 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 08:27:40 PM »

Jim stop at a Cat dealer they have the best document for reading sample covering the engine and every other component using a fluid of any type.
The engine was the least of my worries on my Cat equipment most of the time you could see it coming and samples would show normal.
They were worth the money for the power shift transmission big bucks for a overhaul.
Cat would always cut the filter every 2nd sample because the filtration of today's filters are so precise about filtering it is hard for material to get past premium filters.Like you not 1 time did a sample tell me when a engine was going to blowup just told there was some wear
 I never took stock in oil samples for extending the oil changes probably wasted money over the years but mine was done by the hours regardless of the sample.
We never pulled a sample on a cold engine always on a warm engine I was told the particles will show on a warm engine and not a cold engine.
Cat testing is about the best you can get but they have a very strick and detailed way on pulling a sample even down to the type hose to use.  
 I'll bring you a Cat sample kit to Quartzsite in Jan remind me you will like their kits  



good luck  
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 05:39:25 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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hargreaves
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 02:37:39 AM »

RV Safetyman, the high sodium is from antifreeze, which will wear the bearings and cams. probably from the head gasket problem. If the replacement engine is newly rebuilt it will show high wear metals for the first few oil samples and then level off. We do oil sampling every 12 thousand KM"s on the bus fleet where I work. approx. a thousand diesels , series 50"s, cummins, DD 6/92"s . There are two things we are mostly looking for: high sodium - any sodium for that mater, especially if it increases on each sample, and fuel dilution. those are the two biggys. Usually when you see sodium present you will see the other wear metals increase.  Hope this helps.   

Gerry
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now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 05:42:52 PM »

Gerry, thanks for the great input.  The replacement engine was rebuilt about 200K ago according to the build sheets I have.  As I said, I do not know how many miles the oil has since change, and the sample was taken cold.

When you talk about the sodium, I can see the trend in the samples for my original engine.  It seems a bit high for the replacement engine, but again, I don't know about the oil life.  I do see higher boron and moly.  Apparently they were not too high, since they were not flagged.  

On the replacement engine, I have checked the cam and roller followers and they look good.  When I get the engine in and put the shallow pan on, I will pull a rod cap or two to see how they look.  

Clifford, when you say CAT dealer, I assume you mean a CAT construction equipment dealer as opposed to some OEM truck dealer, correct?  If so, we have Wagner Equipment in the Aurora/Denver area.

Thanks, Jim
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 05:48:33 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
hargreaves
1987 MCI 102A3
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 01:47:30 AM »

Hi Jim, the boron and moly are from ring wear mostly, I wouldn't worry about it at these levels, Sodium however is not something you want to see in any oil sample from the engine. Some auto trans fluids have trace amounts of sodium and if the power steering pump is leaking trans oil into the engine you may see trace amounts.

Gerry
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now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
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