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Author Topic: Common problems on 4104  (Read 7558 times)
uncle ned
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2009, 05:49:58 AM »



BJ  I believe your week was just about as bad as the last of my trip to Tenn.

I am doing great finally.

uncle ned
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johns4104s
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« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2009, 03:51:34 PM »

I WILL TRY AGAIN

John ed.

I have three 4104,s and have owned one of them for over 25 years. I have met 50 plus 04 owners never ever have I heard of any rear fires? Please fill me in on what you know?

John
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Fred Mc
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« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2009, 09:05:54 PM »

"I do like the look but the damn wheel wells make it difficult to arrange the floor plan other than the standard fore and aft bed and sofa behind the driver"

How do the wheel wells on a 4104 differ from other buses. Are they deeper, wider etc?

Fred. Mc
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bevans6
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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2009, 06:09:42 AM »

I believe that some buses have the floor at a level such that there are no interior wheel wells, the floor is entirely flat.

Brian
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2009, 11:54:47 AM »

"I do like the look but the damn wheel wells make it difficult to arrange the floor plan other than the standard fore and aft bed and sofa behind the driver"

How do the wheel wells on a 4104 differ from other buses. Are they deeper, wider etc?

Fred. Mc

On mine, I reduced the right front wheelwell to about 2" with no problem.  Once the bus is resting on the bumpers, you shouldn't need more than an inch or so.  I did that assuming that the tires may get a little bigger at speed, not sure if that is really the case.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 12:05:04 PM by Len Silva » Logged


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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2009, 07:19:28 PM »

I believe that some buses have the floor at a level such that there are no interior wheel wells, the floor is entirely flat.

Is the MC5C not a flat floor.  I thought it was pretty unusual to have a coach bus without a flat floor, but I could be wrong.  I know the MCIs from at least the MC8 on forward have flat floors, or at least no wheel wells intruding. 
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« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2009, 04:24:31 AM »

MCI MC5C has a lower profile that the MC8 or MC9, and has the wheel wells protruding about 3" up from the floor.  You typically build in a couch or a chair over them.  And trip on them in the bedroom in the middle of the night.

Brian
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JackConrad
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« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2009, 04:59:00 AM »

Most of the early intercity coaches had wheel wells inside the coach (4104, 4106, MC-5). These buses had smaller baggage bays, but required less overhead clearance. The newer coaches (MC-8,9, 4107, 4905, etc.) had flat floors allowing taller baggage bays, but required greater overhead clearance.  It's all trade-offs.  Jack
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« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2009, 03:12:21 PM »

John,

I have read posts on this problem many times over the years.  I never bought a 4104 or 6 and I regret that.  They are truly great machines in their own right.


I WILL TRY AGAIN

John ed.

I have three 4104,s and have owned one of them for over 25 years. I have met 50 plus 04 owners never ever have I heard of any rear fires? Please fill me in on what you know?


I wasn't ignoring you buddy.  i was just up to other mischief and it kept me from reading the board.  I am sorry about it but I have to assure you it will happen again.  Use mt EMAIL or phone number for anything you feel is important or even just interesting.  I interface with a lot6 of people from this board that way.

The way I read the board, Gus confirmed the problem and also fix.  I guess the ones that burned up recently had had new mufflers of the OEM design installed somewhere along the line.  Easy to see how that would happen given that the original must ave lasted many years and hundreds of thousands of miles.

I can easily see your interest with you having a personal "fleet" of 4104's.  Lucky you!  Really, I mean that.  I wish I had the room needed to just park three buses....even 35 footers.

There is another problem with the 4104 that I recall.  Seems that the OEM brake cans cost many hundreds of dollars because they are no longer common.  The fix was to cut all the old brackets out and replace all the mounting so the new cans could be installed.  Old cost $300+ as I recall and the new version that is common cost $80. It seemed that the cost differential justified the cost of welding.  You heard about that?  I could be mistaken.

I will search the forum for muffler threads for you and get back.

Nice to hear from you and learn about your 4104's.

John

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« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2009, 03:28:52 PM »

John,

It was a short search.  About 5 down after searching under "4104+muffler"  you get this post from Florida Cliff:


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Fire, Brakes and a hell of a scare
« on: July 06, 2006, 10:13:50 PM »
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Hey all,

What a couple of days.

Headed out on the first leg of our trip to Stone Mountain, stopped at a rest area and the parking brakes wouldn't release.

Found out the DD3 that I didn't replace started leaking past the diaphragm and it was enough to not let the pressure build to release the brakes.  Luckily I had a decent portable compressor and with it on my shop air input I was on the road.

Another job too take care off when I get home. Don't let it spoil the trip, right.

Stone Mountain was great over the fourth, head out to Cherokee, NC.

A big accident with a two trucks sandwiching a lexus sent us on 76 with many 7-8.5% grades.

Put it in second a climbed fine, though slower than I was used too(my first time in the mountains in the bus)

Coming down a long grade my wife says the bedroom is filling with smoke, after several(long) minutes I am able to find a place to stop.

Find that the decking is on FIRE under the bus by the muffler.  I had recently done an on-board fix near the top and the extra pressure from my repair caused a week area in the side to open.

I had just bought a hose hooked to my fresh tank for washing and boy did it come in handy.

We made it down the mountain and into the KOA at Cherokee with only a few minor issues, but at least I am stopped and will survey the repairs needed tomorrow.

I am going to try to temp it somehow to get home and then that &*^%$# muffler is going out of there forever.

Anyway, my blood pressure is almost down to 1000/800, wish me luck and I will be giving NCBob a call for some local parts and pieces procurement on Friday

Cliff


That's two reports of the problem and Cliff would have lost his bus if he hadn't coincidentally installed a connection to his coach water to allow hosing his exterior off.  His floor was burning way underneath and under his bed where he couldn't even get at the fire after it burned thru to the bedroom.  I hope you can appreciate why I would be concerned that a Newbee be alerted.  Can't you?  I am really pleased to think that I may have assisted someone as seasoned and experienced as yourself.  Really, what an opportunity for me.  And I never even came close to owning one and got all my info from those willing to take the time to share.  Their motives must have been good as well as generous.

Check your mufflers!  Time well spent.  If you can jab the top really hard with a no 3 Phillips and it goes thru....then you.....well...you will know.  Send Dallas a PM.  He must have a ton of experience on these and he has undoubtedly heard it all and done it all.

Good luck and good to hear from you.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
uncle ned
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« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2009, 03:39:29 PM »



I believe cliff has a beautiful  "tall" 4905

uncle ned
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johns4104s
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« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2009, 05:18:36 PM »

John,

Your 5 minutes google search  was a little short, 4104,s never came with DD3 brake cans. You dont know very much about buses so If you need training on how to google search just give me a call i will be happy to help you.

Changing 4104 drive axle brake cans from ICC ( ICC brakes should be changed on a 4104, because if the air pressure drops the ICC brake realises and the bus on a hill rolls) easy fix,change to spring brakes. But if you call $35.00 for spring brake cans expensive then I guess they are. You do have to run an extra air line to the drivers seat but not to bad.

Over the years I have seen many bus fire causalties of all makes and models for all types of reasons.

John


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gus
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« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2009, 09:28:14 PM »

If anyone wants to convert from original to modified mufflers I have numbers and drawings for mine.

Another poster came up with his own mod also but I don't remember exactly what he did. I'm sure it is in the archives.
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JohnEd
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« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2009, 10:43:39 PM »

John 4104s,

You dont know very much about buses so If you need training on how to google search just give me a call i will be happy to help you.  I think that that statement is your entire point.  You seem worried about whether I know that I am basically ignorant about buses.  Your point is poorly made and redundant....I have already admitted that.  Many times, in fact.  Its my humility, John.  That is my most outstanding virtue and the one of which I am most proud.

Instead of running around policing the board for those that know less than you why not add constructive data to what you seem to think is lacking.  I don't mind being corrected, really I don't.  I profit from that.  As to muffs causing bus fires that is a true statement.  How many bus Knuts have to chime in with their horror stories for you to get that?  Your not wanting it to be true or your not having ever heard of it or your not having ever experienced it or your wanting desperately for me to be wrong  changes nothing.  Telling the guy that he should change over to spring brakes would have been a nice piece of info for you to share but you held that back.....why?  That would have related to his question and been the perfect type of info that Newbee was looking for.  Got anything else that even might be constructive?  Throw it out there and somebody will help you with the facts even if you got'em all right.  Plays well with others? Tongue

I never Googled a darn thing.  I did a search on this board for MUFFLER+4104.  I only read down 5 lines or so and I found two Knuts contradicting your "there is no fire hazard"  piece of miss information.  Can you reference a single Knut that will support your position that no fire hazard exists?  But I can't say as I really know from any personal experience.  Argue with Gus and the others that contradicted you and let us all profit from the exchange.  Even you maybe.

My email and phone number are listed.  Use them if you like but I have to caution you...i am a lot more apologetic in person or on a private line. Huh Grin

Be well my friend and I look forward to hearing from you.  Hope you see this as constructive.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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JohnEd
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« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2009, 11:01:09 PM »

Guys,

I searched 4104+muffler+fire and got a post by Gus on Feb 25, 2009 in a simular post by a newbee asking basically the same questions that this guy did.  In it Gus said:Signs of exhaust leaking into the rear of the bus, these mufflers are designed to rust out at the top out of sight. They start very nice fires in the bedroom!  Now I am sure that I have heard that before and I think Gus was corect and timely in his advice.  Can anybody else contribute info on this problem?....know about it?....know it an urban myth?....think a fire in the bedroom is a good thing?(joke there)

Thanks,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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