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Author Topic: Dielectric Spray ????  (Read 6108 times)
rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« on: November 29, 2009, 05:32:11 AM »

In another thread, the subject drifted off to dielectric sprays (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=14072.0).  I thought I would separate it out and see if we can get some more input.

Buswarrior suggested this material:  http://www.spectra-ssa.com/termin8tr.html.  However, it is only available in Canada or in 12 can cases in the USA.

Here is my post from that thread:  

Quote
I have been quite impressed with CorrosionX (http://www.corrosionx.com/marine.html).  They do not mention it on the main page, but on this page:  http://www.corrosionx.com/ma_use.html, they mention the "extraordinary dielectric properties".  

I have used it on my battery connections, but not on electrical connections like the connections to the ECM.  Seems to me to be a bit "greasy" and I am not sure if that is good or bad.

Anyone have experience with this product on critical electrical connections?

It is getting much easier to find - supposed to be at True Value hardware stores.  Used to have to go to a marine outlet or an RV trade show.


Would be interested in input on CorrosionX or any other good spray dielectric.

Jim
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 07:25:37 AM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
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JohnEd
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 01:05:35 PM »

RV,

This is what I had to say on the last thread.  Spray forms of "silicone" may have other stuff in it that will impede connections.  I don't know about that but I do know that the stuff that works is "Silicone grease" all by itself.
or sure who I wanted to get through to.

I think there is a disconnect about the products being discussed and their relative applications.  Firstly, you mentioned "dielectric spray".  That stuff is a superb insulator that is sprayed on the OUTSIDE of a "connected" connector.  The dielectric waterproofs the connector and wiring and INSULATES whatever it touches.  If you spray that inside a terminal connector you will have just disabled that connector.  Getting that "paint" out of the connector may be a bridge too far and you will probably need to replace the entire connector.  Secondly we have cleaner.  That stuff gets sprayed on the connector and then you, quick like a bunny, push the connector together and then apart many times.  That will serve to clean the connector contacts and not short or insulate anything.  Thirdly, and I think this was what most of the postings were about, SILICONE GREASE is used to fill the connector prior to assembly.  It is a superb insulator and is used for spark plug boots to prevent arcing.  Curious FACT is that while it is an insulator it will actually IMPROVE the connection of pins where it is applied and also very important is that it will bar moisture or corrosion from the terminals or contacts.  This stuff seems to be not only ambidextrous / and a switch hitter but it is batting 1000 on either side of the plate.  See why it might be confusing?  Dielectric was poison in one case and a real plus in another.  Spray means it is paint....me thinks.  I have the liquid tape in spray and it ain't for the inside of connectors.  I am repeating what others have said and my objective is to add clarification.  If this leaves you more confused then you are the person I wanted to reach


The silicone grease is available thru a trailer install and service shop.  They use it as a product that is "special" to them as a species.  Try a trailer supply store and use their manuals if they are stumped.  If you buy it as "spark plug boot release agent" it will be costly but that is the same stuff.

I can get you the name of a vendor if you need and I will even send you a large tube if you like.

Good luck with this,

John
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bevans6
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2009, 01:33:55 PM »

dielectric compounds, either in a thickened 'grease' format or in a thinner sprayable format, are basically the same thing.  In either case they are basically a non-conductive oil, lubricant, water displacer and waterproofer, not a 'paint'.  You use in anywhere you use the grease, it just penetrates better, is easier to apply, and works better because of that.  sure, you can find an insulating spray that is a paint that will ruin connectors if you spray it inside, but that's not what a dielectric spray intended for use in electrical and electronic connections actually is.  The dielectric nature of the spray liquid is that is simply doesn't short circuit the electrical connections inside the connector.

I'm not an engineer who designs dielectric compounds, grease, spray or otherwise, but I have used them as an electronics tech for 30 odd years...

Brian
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2009, 04:53:40 PM »

Wow, I am glad I asked the question - I think Huh

If I follow Johns post, a product like CorrosionX should be applied on the outside of the connector.  If it is sprayed on the pins, it will cause a problem.

Brian's post seems to suggest you can use something like CorrosionX inside the connector.

I had an email from a person who does not like to post and he also said not to use the dielectric spray (CorrosionX) on the inside of the connector.

The main reason I asked the question is that I have the connections off the engine ECM and wondered if I should spray the multi-pin connectors before I connect.  Sounds like I would be better off to just plug them in and maybe spray some CorrosionX on them after they are connected.

I have probably have not properly understood John and Brian's posts.  If that is the case, clarify away.

Thanks for the input.

Jim

« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 07:17:02 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
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Bill B /bus
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009, 05:15:51 PM »

I can't wait to see this reply. Huh Seriously confused. I've used the dielectric(silicon) grease in various applications with great success, but not the spray.

Still confused - help necessary to prevent brain injury.
Bill
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belfert
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 08:29:27 PM »

What exactly is dielectric grease for if not to put inside connectors?  I know some of the Weatherpack connectors that are original to the bus have some sort of grease like substance in them.

I guess it is a good thing I never put anything inside all the Weatherpack connectors I used for my rear lights.
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 08:53:10 PM »

I've used Corrosion-X for years on the inside of the Al skin of airplanes to prevent corrosion at the skin joints.

I also use it on bolts, nuts and any kind of fastener I don't want to corrode and it also acts as a lubricant in the process.

I use it on all battery and battery cable connections inside and out, never had any corrosion anywhere.

I used it on every corroded electrical box terminal post connection on my 4104 that I redid because of corrosion.

I can't think of anything made of metal and subject to corrosion I haven't used it on.

I buy it in the hand  spray bottles so I don't have to pay hazardous shipping charges but the spray cans were best for airplane insides.

No, I have no connection with Corrosion-X, I don't even know who makes it.

There is also another product, Boeshield, which is about the same stuff but slightly more expensive and made by Boeing, as I understand it, but I've never used it.

I used silicone grease on some electrical wiring once and inside my spark plug connections and everything turned green. Needless to say I haven't used it since.
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bevans6
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2009, 05:36:01 AM »

Dielectric grease is exactly intended to put inside of connectors.  It's very good for that purpose, no one is saying it isn't.  In manufacturing situations where a pre-determined amount can be applied, it excels.  It is persistent and stays where you want it until the connector is used.  Dielectric spray is less persistent, but better for use on old or used connectors, in the field.  The solvents that carry the "active ingredients" can be made to wick up inside of connectors and even inside wire insulation, for better coverage.  That very property means it's more difficult to apply in a manufacturing situation and have the stuff remain where you want it for a couple of years before the connector gets used, but it is a lot easier to blast a connector, upside down in the dark under a truck or bus, and get enough of the stuff where it might  do some good.  After whatever solvent is used to carry the stuff evaporates the oils and protectors remain, unlike WD-40 which is designed to evaporate and doesn't leave a lot of protection or lubricant behind.

I use both.  They are two sides of the same coin, heads or tails they spend the same!  As noted a spray like Corrosion-X has a lot of uses beyond just inside connectors, it can be used to moisture proof and protect many things.

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Dan C
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 07:11:19 PM »

Jim, I have used Caig Labs ProGold (renamed in 2006 to DeOxit Gold). Spray the socket side of
the connector then insert the plug. It made a difference on my DDEC II connectors.
Check:
http://www.caig.com/
You can buy it at Radio Shack --- $14.95 for 2 very small spray cans.

Dan

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JohnEd
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 10:03:27 PM »

OK...here is the rub.  A dielectric is an insulator.  Petroleum oil is a dielectric.  It would interupt the connections of a connector if you sprayed oil in it.  Very bad idea.  Once upon a time the scientists concocted a substance called "Silicone".  It was slippery and very stable in that it didn't oxidize so they made a grease out of it.  All went well.  One day, for reasons no longer known, an electrical engineer put some of that grease on a contact and measured the resistance (conductance) of the contacts.  Low and behold the metal contacts were making better contact so long as they touched but if they drifted apart the joint went open and refused to arc till the voltage was jacked way way up.  The other really neat thing was that while the grease made the joint better, it would preserve that good contact cause the joint couldn't oxidize.  All this stuff was discovered after silicone was in use as a lubricant.

Silicone oil was what happened first and grease followed.  Packing a connector with silicone grease was a really good way to ensure that all the contacts were making as good a contact as was possible and the grease made it impossible for the connector to get wet inside while keeping oxygen away from the metal contacts.  What a deal. 

Then came silicone spray.  It was a lubricant spray plain and simple.  Like the grease it found its way into tronics on connector pins.  Not as good as grease cause oil migrates....eventually.  But it is better than nothing.  Getting it to squirt up in the connector holes isn't all that important cause if you pack that puppy with grease the grease will be forced into every space and, don't forget, waterproof the connector to a large extent.

Here is a real problem: those lubricants are not PURE silicone.  They got other stuff in them that is associated with rust dissolving and other stuff.  That "silicone spray" may be only part silicone.  To do a new connector just pack it with silicone grease and rest assured that....  It it is an old connector spray it out with "Electrical contact cleaner spray".  That should dissolve some of the stuff off of the itsy bitsy pins.  Then after that stuff is dry pack the cleaned connector with grease.  All done!

Treat the outside of the connector with a dielectric paint/coating, etc. Keeps serious water spray out of the connector innards.  You can wrap the connector in tape or self vulcanizing tape and make it water proof to depth....sort of.  If you wrap a plug that isn't treated with silicone it might just start to grow in there cause condensate can't get out.  Packed there isn't any space to support condensation environment.

Four products....1 ) sil grease  2) sil oil   3) contact cleaner   4) silicone spray, only if the can says "PURE silicone".

Are we there yet?  Are ya happy now Pilgrim?  This is what I remember as I lived thru this period, I think.  Any resemblance to the actual facts is only probable.

John
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 07:11:38 AM »

John and others, thanks for taking the time to let us "electronically challenged" folks better understand how these products work.

As I mentioned, I was contacted by email by a person who does not like to post here (sad testimony about some negative attitudes/replies).  I consider him to be very knowledgeable on the subject.  His recommendation for grease to be used INSIDE the connector is:  http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.185/.f.  One supplier is:  http://www.newark.com/caig-laboratories/l260-c1/lubricating-grease/dp/49H9555?MER=PPSO_N_C_EverywhereElse_None&MER=PPSO_N_P_EverywhereElse_None

Anyone else use this material?

Thanks,

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2009, 01:35:41 PM »

Jim, did you see my post dated November 30, (2 posts up). I told you about Caig.com
and stated that your best supplier is you local Radio Shack.
Try it out, it does work.

Dan

As Sean would say "There must be an echo here"!
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2009, 02:00:02 PM »

I don't "spray" Corrosion-X except inside airplanes. If you use a lot it runs out on the bottom at the Al sheet metal joints and makes a mess.

I use the pump bottle for all other things and for electrics I usually put a drop on my finger and wipe it on the pins. I never pump it into the holes.

Anything electric does not need to be soaked and, anyway, this stuff is expensive!

I rub it on clean battery posts and inside the clamp type connectors. Never had one corrode yet.

I don't know if it qualifies as a dielectric and don't care, I use it to stop corrosion and, for this, it is excellent.
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 02:26:12 PM »

Gus,

Nothing succeeds like success....nothing! 

Thanks,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2009, 03:52:29 PM »

Dan, I do remember your discussion, but it did not dawn on me that the other recommendation was the same stuff.  I guess that not only was there an echo, but the vote is now up to two Cheesy

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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