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Author Topic: This will get some people stirred up  (Read 6343 times)
Old Scool Bus
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« on: November 30, 2009, 07:43:39 PM »

I'm considering completely removing my tag axle from my MCI 8, it's been chained up ever since I've owned it so I find no use for it. I'm sure there is a great deal of weight suspended there and I could create some more storage space. Me and a friend have already planned how to use the space and make the bus look better and unique.

Were gonna take a bay door from another MCI and fabricate it where the tag is removed it looks like it will fit flawlessly. MCI built a 40 foot single rear axle coach and it looks real nice. The axle is 25 inches back farther than the original.

I'm not opposed to moving the drive to the tag position if possible.

I'm sure there's gonna be some name calling in this one. lol
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2009, 08:04:07 PM »

OSB,
No name calling, no nay-saying, but......................

OK first off it's your bus, your call. But I would think very seriously about "just removing the tag axle" before doing it.
OK first off even though yours have been chained up since you got it, they were designed to help support the rear end weight. And if properly working with correct air pressure they do make it handle better! They stabilize the rear "teeter-toter effect" and put proportionate weight on the steer axle. (even though you don't think they are helping. I can guarantee that on serious bumps and dips they act as "wheelie bars and help keep things from "out of control")
Now that said if I were going to remove one, I would then move the drive back for better weight distribution. (like the 2 axle factory coach!)

Also there is a drive shaft that goes between the transmission and drive axle that will be in the middle of your bay if you "just take out the tags"

Either way it's your bus, and a lot of work do it your way! And remember YMMV!
FWIW Grin  BK  Grin 
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

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JohnEd
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2009, 08:18:06 PM »

HMMMMMM.  I do remember someone saying that low air pressure in the tag suspension made the front end light and the bus wandered.  HMMMM Wheelies you say?   HMMMMM no steering?  You will keep us apprised of your intended routes when you travel....right?  After all, me and my family never did anything to you.

This is one of those times when you want to scream st the guy.  Not cause he needs it but because you want to make sure you have been properly heard.

They do this on the 4905 and it works well.  The 4905 has BOGIE wheels, not tags.  If you are truly committed to this action maybe you could swap you MCI rig for a GM 4905?  Food for thought?

THIMK!

John
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Old Scool Bus
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2009, 08:34:50 PM »

Like I said, this will get some people riled.

I have already driven the bus 500 + miles with just rims hanging back there. The bus did porpoise slightly but no wheelies and no ill handling affects. after 50 miles I didn't even notice the porpoising.

For once it would be nice for people to chime in with helpful and optimistic ways of doing things. I have chopped perfectly good motorcycles into unrecognizable seemingly scrap and ended up with a bike with things people said would never work. It did. I love living in my bus but occasionally I like getting outside of it and away from it for a while. I couldn't imagine living in a box and never at least thinking outside of it.

Sometimes I do things just because someone told me I couldn't, I'll show me. lol

Bryce, I wasn't going to build a full bay just 2 small compartments. But if the axle can be moved back then I would.
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RJ
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2009, 08:41:32 PM »

OSB -

Anything can be accomplished if you throw enough money at it!

Time to rent the movie "Money Pit" with Tom Hanks & Shelly Long?   Grin

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
Old Scool Bus
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2009, 08:58:55 PM »

OSB -

Anything can be accomplished if you throw enough money at it!

Time to rent the movie "Money Pit" with Tom Hanks & Shelly Long?   Grin

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

Your preaching to the choir but I'm gonna keep singing.

I know a guy who stretched a MCI 8 5 ft and put in a series 60

I know the guy who built the first Transformer  then built 3 replicas and went all over the country with them.

Another guy built a helicopter 3 wheeler with 2 engines. I'd fly in it.

 
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Don4107
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2009, 09:51:19 PM »

How about putting some tires on the tags and really compare how it drives with and without.  Then you would have a better idea of how or if it affects handling or ride.   
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
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84dime
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2009, 10:10:38 PM »

It will be even less wheelie effect if you move the axle back. And you said it drove fine without the tag so i say do it. There are many people that stop others from doing things that are easily achiveable. If you screw up your bus though, please dont look for me  Grin
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 10:12:31 PM by 84dime » Logged

Joshua Chapin
PD-4104-3946
Salem,OR
Old Scool Bus
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 10:13:55 PM »

There are tires on it & I have had them down before, not enough difference to be a concern.

Just a guesstimate but I think I could shed about 1,000 lbs or more by removing them. All of that weight has been suspended there for a few years. If I do remove it all and decide I don't like it I'll just put it back in, not gonna take the plasma cutter to it right away.
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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 10:20:31 PM »

With the MCI's tag axle behind the driver, putting pressure into the tag air bags will take weight off the drivers and transfer it to the steering axle. Conversely, if you completely remove the tag axle, the front axle will have less weight, but the drive axle will be heavier.
I would suggest weighing you bus by axle and see what it weighs in at with the tag axle chained up.  You already know how the bus will behave without the tag axle, and you seem to be alright with it.  The weight issue is a big one.  In general, you are allowed 12,000lbs on the steers, 20,000lbs on a single drive axle and 34,000lbs on a tandem rear axle.  Higher weights can be allowed, but since you are not a commercial vehicle, these weights listed above are what usually applies.  And don't think that the Highway Patrol will not pull you into the scales sometime-different states have different rules.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Old Scool Bus
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 10:28:06 PM »

So if my bus weighs 26,000 or even less this shouldn't be an issue should it?
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jackhartjr
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 10:29:35 PM »

I wonder if by removing the tag, which in essence it is now being chained up will make too much unsupported weight on the engine/cradle and cause premature or catastrophic failure back there?

You also said, "For once it would be nice for people to chime in with helpful and optimistic ways of doing things."
Lighten up schoolie, the first two post had good comments!
Jack
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Jack Hart, CDS
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Old Scool Bus
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 10:52:17 PM »

It's not a matter of lightening up. I was just making a statement about a wish.

This site has always had a huge %age of people who say "that won't work" or "Let me know what roads you take so you don't kill my family"

What I'm saying is instead of attacking an idea of why it won't work come up with an idea to help make it work or be safer.

Or if you have no idea what's really going on then just listen (read) and learn.
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84dime
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2009, 10:56:04 PM »

I think just driving through some of the cities in the US are more dangerous than removing a tag axle. Man the shootings are getting high. Also there is alot of street racing going on too.

Dont drift the bus and you will be fine.
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Joshua Chapin
PD-4104-3946
Salem,OR
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« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009, 11:07:12 PM »

Actually, I do know what's really going on schoolie.

If you read the posts made, there are some valid reasons to not do this...I gave you the best one without just coming right out and saying the engine/cradle combo will suffer GREATLY from not having the tag back there in working order.

Just like your composting toilet idea...you assumed urine could be considered grey water...you are assuming taking the tag off of you '8' will be OK.  Now the best answer was and still is that if you do it to move the drive axle back.  (That by the way will get back some of the leverage needed to keep the engine/cradle back to a managable working load.)

Not trying to get into a peeing contest here...just trying to point out that by really reading the answers...you will learn a lot...instead of getting your panties in a wad when someone points out stuff you don't want to hear.
Jack
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Jack Hart, CDS
1956 GMC PD-4501 #945 (The Mighty SCENICRUISER!)
8V71 Detroit
4 speed Spicer Trannsmission
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