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Author Topic: This will get some people stirred up  (Read 6940 times)
Len Silva
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2009, 07:52:32 AM »

Just so you know, these are some of the guys who are offering advice.

http://prevostlemirage.blogspot.com/
http://bus.gumpydog.com
http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm
http://busconversionstuff.com/

Might just be a little first hand knowledge in there.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2009, 08:17:31 AM »

OSB,
I was going to send this as a PM, but then changed my mind.
OK first off there is a huge difference between a bike and a bus! Like maybe 25,000 +/- lbs.
Now just for the record, I am known as a lazy good for nothing, never did anything worth while idiot. That said, it tells you I know absolutely nothing, nada, zero, zilch, yada yada yada about buses or anything you are proposing here.
Further more I know even less about you than I do anything else. (and so does the rest of the members of the board) You pop up from nowhere, and begin throwing out wild @$# ideas. Now that alone is not a bad thing. But not having an open mind to the responses you get is.

So for the record now that you know a little about me. And how little I know, and that I am ignorant and totally worthless. How about giving us a little back ground info on yerself? You see many of us have been around on this board for a while, and have learned a little about each other and their abilities. (or lack of) But when most of us were newbies, we introduced ourselves or whatever and gave a little bit of back ground history or what not. Also many of us add info about us in our profiles or tag lines.  
FWIW ; Iwannabusbad@gmail.com  doesn't tell us alot about you, your bus, or anything except you maid up this email just for this site.

Now that all that has been said and it's all out in the open that Cody; is who you go too for welding and metal fabrication. Clifford; for wood working, Nick;for major repairs, engine and transmission work, Ruthi; HVAC, Belfert; for roof raising, Dallas; painting, and etc. you get the idea! Clear as mud now right?

OK now I am off that soapbox and onto another one 1st off I didn't say "don't do it", or "it can't be done", or "it's gonna break in half and melt into a puddle of muck"

I did say that it wasn't an easy task to do correctly (not in those exact words), and it is not advisable.
OK so now we know your bus came from Denver's transit system. And I know yours is not the first MC8 that an owner acquired from the Denver transit system that had the tags chained up.
However even though I know nothing at all about buses (I'm the computer guru of this bunch! Grin). The reason they chain those tag axles up is for better traction in the winter. Oh wait it doesn't snow in Denver does it? (let me google it and see, opps no need my sister used to live in Wheat Ridge, Georgetown, & Empire so see I might just know a little about the area Grin)
Also when do they take old buses out of service and replace them most of the time? When possible @ the end of or beginning of a yr. (think new budget funding).
So if a bus had the tags "chained up" when retired do you really think that the mechanics are really gonna waste their time unchaining it?

OK now I know another guy who had a MC8 that came from Denver (and yes the tags were "chained up", and he had no idea his bus drove bad until he had me drive it back from a store we'd been too. I immediately noticed how bad it darted and wandered all over. Once back at my shop we unchained the tags and took it out for another ride. It drove much better, but he still liked it the other way. And was still considering what you are. So did he do it? I have no idea, haven't seen or heard from him in a while.
But I do know that with out major modification it's not recommended!

Now as for moving the drives back like as in;
Quote from: bryanhes
If weight load is close to the same would it not work to move the axle back to a closer position of maybe where the 4905 is placed?
Just thinking out loud  Roll Eyes
Bryan


OK Bryan nothing wrong with thinking out loud, or even outside the box. But on a T drive the axle can not be moved that far to the rear. Ever notice the GM buses with the axle that far back all have V drives? There is a reason. Grin

OK so OSB I say go for it, it's your $, your bus (maybe), and your time. Prove us wrong. I welcome the idea of it, but I really doubt you'll keep us informed if it fails! I wonder if you aren't just baiting us, to ruffle feathers after all your title is "This will get some people stirred up!"
Are you really a newbie, or just someone bored and looking for ways to "stir the out house" I mean "POT" Could it be that you are really someone we know that likes to keep a contraversy going and is hiding under that new email address?

OK I'm done light the fires!
Grin  BK  Grin    www.kylakesidetravel.net  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
philiptompkjns
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« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2009, 08:23:28 AM »

I think getting  the axles weighed would be a good idea...
How about putting the  generator in the nose if the steer tires don't have enough weight?

And as far as the engine cradle breaking, it's never a bad idea to reinforce things... just don't add too much weight.  As long as you don't add any more weight than you remove with the tags you'll probably be  OK.

I would also think that moving  the drive axle would be a very huge project.  Not  impossible though.

Good luck though, you will save some weight, rotating mass, and fuel!
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« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2009, 08:28:37 AM »

There was at one time a CLOWN on this board and he also thought way outside the box.Nuff said. Grin Grin Grin
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Terry
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cody
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« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2009, 08:29:01 AM »

One thing I'd check into is what kind of leverage effect would be created by the extra overhang, I know of a couple MCI's that have broken engine cradles that still use the tags.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2009, 08:34:16 AM »

One thing I'd check into is what kind of leverage effect would be created by the extra overhang, I know of a couple MCI's that have broken engine cradles that still use the tags.

Aw Cody say it ain't so! Really broken engine cradles?  Still using the factory designed and engineered tags, and still broke?
Oh the humility of it! I can't stand it!  Please tell me more. Like might this be the perfectly fine otherwise good looking bus at the end of a driveway by the road now serving as a "Billboard"? Please tell me more, I must know!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
cody
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« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2009, 08:38:16 AM »

I know it's sad isn't it BK, when people could have bought iggles, there sit the MCI's, and some still drive them, it scares me.lol  I apologize for being a little touchy, I guess I'm getting cranky in my old age.
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Frank @ TX
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« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2009, 08:41:57 AM »

I have an MC-9 , not so much different than an 8.
When I'm in a parking lot or tight fuel station I take the pressure off the tags for quicker steering.
Every now and then I forget to load the tags when I get back on the road.
What a big difference in the ride.  At highway speeds the front end seems to wander and bounce.
Then I remember to load the tags. ( I have the switch at the dash for control of the tag loading )
The ride and control comes right back to normal , straight line stable.
Since you've had the tags up the whole time you've driven the bus you may not know how straight line stable these buses are designed to be.  The side loads on the bus at highway speeds during cross winds is substainal and the tags help control these extra loads.
Of course you'll do what you want to do.
I suggest you not play with the basic structure / foundation of this bus without having a professional help you thru it.
Frank
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2009, 08:45:57 AM »

I have an MC-9 , not so much different than an 8.
When I'm in a parking lot or tight fuel station I take the pressure off the tags for quicker steering.
Every now and then I forget to load the tags when I get back on the road.
What a big difference in the ride.  At highway speeds the front end seems to wander and bounce.
Then I remember to load the tags. ( I have the switch at the dash for control of the tag loading )
The ride and control comes right back to normal , straight line stable.
Since you've had the tags up the whole time you've driven the bus you may not know how straight line stable these buses are designed to be.
 The side loads on the bus at highway speeds during cross winds is substainal and the tags help control these extra loads.
Of course you'll do what you want to do.
I suggest you not play with the basic structure / foundation of this bus without having a professional help you thru it.
Frank

Frank thank you, my point exactly! Thank you, thank you very much! Grin
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2009, 08:49:01 AM »

There was at one time a CLOWN on this board and he also thought way outside the box.Nuff said. Grin Grin Grin

Yes but his specialty was VW hippie buses! Grin He could rebuild one of those all by himself with $20 worth of Harbor Freight tools! Grin
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Len Silva
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« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2009, 08:52:05 AM »

There was also the guy who was going to do a "frame off" restoration of some junker city bus. He got all upset when it was suggested that it might not be a worthwhile project, and besides, there is no frame.
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jackhartjr
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« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2009, 09:04:22 AM »

BK...I am reminded of how much I like you...your post was right on!
Jack
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Jack Hart, CDS
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kyle4501
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« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2009, 09:16:48 AM »

For some, their minds are already made up, so let's not confuse them with facts.  Grin

After all, engineers are a bunch of nay-saying fools who can't get anything right - everyone knows it was the tinkerers in the backyard that really built those buses & made 'em last milloins & millions of miles in revenue service.  Wink



On another note, a question to consider - If a bus with proper tags has issues with the engine support system (cracked cradle), how smart do you think it would be to add more stress to the structure by removing a load bearing axle?

Here's another thought- If you're so tight on space that you'd go to the effort & expense to remove the tag / relocate the drive AND pull a trailer so big it needs a steering front axle - - - maybe - just maybe - a bus ain't the best route to consider. I'm thinking a long frame cabover with double sleeper & the longest trailer allowed. You'd have lots more standard parts to base your eccentric 'needs' on.

Just think of the possibilities;
With the space under the trailer, you'd be able to have sufficient waste water storage.
Slideouts wouldn't be a problem.
You could easily change position of the trailer axles to provide the maneuverability, ride quality, or weight capacity desired.

Damn, I've talked myself into it already. Anyone want a Scenicruiser or 6?      (NOT)
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gumpy
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« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2009, 09:22:17 AM »

Here's another thought- If you're so tight on space that you'd go to the effort & expense to remove the tag / relocate the drive AND pull a trailer so big it needs a steering front axle - - - maybe - just maybe - a bus ain't the best route to consider. I'm thinking a long frame cabover with double sleeper & the longest trailer allowed. You'd have lots more standard parts to base your eccentric 'needs' on.

Just think of the possibilities;
With the space under the trailer, you'd be able to have sufficient waste water storage.
Slideouts wouldn't be a problem.
You could easily change position of the trailer axles to provide the maneuverability, ride quality, or weight capacity desired.



Dang good point! 

I've often considered finding a big old furniture mover trailer for my next conversion. The lowered belly for bays, and at a couple levels up inside. Maybe a small garage in the back for the toad and bikes.

But then again, I thought it would be cool to buy that used aircraft carrier that Canada had for sale a few years ago and host bus rallys on it's decks while floating the 7 seas.

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« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2009, 09:24:33 AM »

BK,

See I learned something new today  Grin  I am not real familiar w/ MCI so it was more of a question. My tag was not as crucial to the design as the MCI apparently is. OSB, just go buy a 4905 and you can remove the tag as I did, gain the extra baggage compartment and have a really cool looking bus  Grin Grin Or find one without the bogie to begin with, LOL

Bryan
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