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Author Topic: Trouble shooting my Inverter  (Read 2598 times)
Eagle Andy
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« on: December 13, 2009, 06:16:46 PM »

OK Guys bare with me on this one  Undecided I have a Trace 2000 watt inverter/ charger I do not know what model as it has no # all it say's is that it is a FMCA 25th anniversary edition. Now this is what it's doing. First it's at least 10 years old . I have tryed to fined some sort of manual but nothing so far. I have had the bus  pluged in for most of the time at home, to keep all the battries charged . This last week I came home and as I always do I check the state of charge and make sure things are as they should be . This time I noticed that the charge was low and so I pushed the button on the panel and the needle moved over to 13 amps perfict all's working and about 30 sec later it kicks out.  so I wait a few min and push it again and it does the same thing. Now up to this point it has been working fine as far as I can tell. I charged the battries up to 13 amps still same same . I even started the generator thinking that I wasn't getting enough voltage from the house. I called Jim shepard and visited with him a little and tryed some of his suggestions still nothing . Now Iam not the sharpest pencil in the box when it come to this kind of issue SoOOOOOOOOO any help would be very welcome Thanks for your time Andy
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Lin
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 06:24:47 PM »

Is that why you want to shoot your inverter?

Oh well, I can't diagnose the problem but would suggest you call Trace tech support.  They should at least be able to help you identify the model and direct you where to download the manual.  How are you checking the the battery voltage?  Maybe the inverter/charger is doing its job, but the voltage reading is off.
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 06:29:24 PM »

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« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 02:14:44 PM by Now Just Dallas » Logged

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Eagle Andy
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2009, 06:35:05 PM »

Lin I use a multi meter to check the voltage and Dallas I service the battries at least check them once a month . Thanks for the help I try to get ahold of Trace this week Thanks Andy
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2009, 07:28:29 PM »

Another thing to make sure it is an inverter and not a battery problem.  You could try charging the bank with another charger.  If it comes up to full charge and does not kick out, then the batteries are probably okay.  You could also remove one battery from the bank at a time (assuming they are in parallel.  If in series, you would remove two).  One shorted battery could be draining the rest and kicking the charger off line.  The alternate to that method would be using the inverter to charge one battery at a time to see if any have a problem.
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2009, 07:44:17 PM »

I suspect it is not a battery problem.  I had suggested that Andy charge the batteries with a separate charger and see if they held the voltage.  It sounds like he tried that.  We also discussed checking the batteries with a hydrometer.  He had done that on both battery banks.  He has tired charging only the start batteries ( 2 ea 8D) and house batteries (2 ea golf cart).  I was real suspect about the house batteries, since they were the only ones that seemed ok after his bank of 6 golf carts discharged and froze. 

The inverter is connected to the batteries via a solenoid switch as I recall.  I guess that somehow that switch could be the problem.  Andy, you could try connecting the inverter directly to the start batteries. 

We discussed the size of the cabling and he said it looked like welding cable.  I had him check the temperature of all of the connections and they were not hot.

My guess is that the inverter has an issue.

Andy, good luck on the call to Trace.  When they were a company, they had good support.  After they were purchased by Xantrex I am told that support for their product became non-existent. 

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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cody
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2009, 09:10:25 PM »

My freedom 458 from heart got confused once and was cycling on and off, I was told to unplug it from the phone cord and then disconnect the batteries, completely unhook it for about a half hour, then hook it back up and plug the bus in, it reset itself and worked great after that.
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Eagle Andy
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 05:50:33 AM »

Thanks Cody , I am pretty sure this one is old and Iam not sure if I have the telly cord . All I have is the plug for the remote.  I will check it out and see . Thanks again  , Andy
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 06:26:17 AM »

Sounds like your inverter has lost it's programming for the battery type and capacity.

For fixing that you will need the enhanced remote panel to run through the setup
again to correct the settings.

My Heart 3000 does that occasionally. It just gets goofy and goes into not-charge mode unless I reset it and crank the power share up to 20, Then the batteries will start charging and everything is fine. Sometimes it's a matter of disconnecting the batteries from the inverter for an hour. Then it will reset itself.

I guess these things get confused or just plain bored and want attention sometimes.

Dave...
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 07:52:59 PM »

Andy and I talked again tonight and I have a much stronger opinion that it is battery related.  He has his start, house, and generator batteries tied together at one time or another via several connect switches.  He found that the generator battery was toast (cracked and drained).  I suspect that would be enough to confuse the charging circuit.

When he gets a chance, he is going to hook the inverter directly to a known battery.   His 8Ds sound like they are in pretty good shape.  He is going to discharge them a bit and then hook one to the inverter.  My guess is that the inverter will charge the battery without kicking out.  If not, he knows that the inverter charging circuit is not working (it does work in the invert mode).

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2009, 07:49:49 AM »

Andy, if it is the charging on the inverter buy you a Iota smart charger with sensors a lot cheaper than sending the Traces back for repairs.
I have 2 - 2512 stacked Traces and the charging was always a PITA to keep working a plus with the Iota it can be wired to charge all 3 batteries systems well worth the 175 bucks for me 



good luck
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Eagle Andy
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 10:27:11 PM »

Hi  Guy's  Thanks for all your help on my inverter. The temp came up today to around 36 deg and guess what . yup you guessed it the charger started working  Grin Now Iam sure this in not normal or at least I don't think it's normal . I guess I'll just keep checking things out . Thanks again Andy
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2009, 06:29:33 AM »

My Prosine inverter has gone wacky in the last week too.  The panel says it can't communicate with the inverter.  I am guessing the below zero weather is wreaking havoc with things.  I leave it plugged in all winter.

I am going to reset it tomorrow when it is supposed to be 23 degrees.
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 06:55:12 AM »

PROSINE 3000

no communications

try reseating the remote telenphone cable at the inverter and at the remote

if that fails

remove the inverter wire going to the battery +  and then reinstall (it will spark when reinstalling)

if that fails

There is a (Bypass/On) switch between the battery temp jack and the two remote out jacks) - turn it to bypass and then back to on to reset the unit
(THIS IS A NON_PUBLISHED FACTORY TECH FIX _ THAT THEY NEVER PUT IN THE BOOK _ I"VE BEEN HIT WITH THIS TWICE NOW - WHEN THE BATTERIES WENT BAD)
WHEN YOU CALL XANTREX THEY WILL TELL YOU ABOUT THIS _ MOST OF THE TIMES ??

also try cycling A/C input power to the inverter
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 07:43:35 PM »

Hi Andy.  Per our discussion tonight, I think we have figured out what inverter you have. 

As we talked I did some searching and found this post on a forum:  "Trace did the 25th anniversery version inverter for Jack Killingback from The Solar City in Arizona about 1990 or 91. It is a standard unit other than stickers and screening."

Some more searching suggested it was a model 2012.  You can find the owners manual at:  http://www.xantrex.com/support/docdisplayarchive.asp

When you look at the list of owners manuals for the 2012 you will see two for different versions of a two stage charge and one for a three stage.  You will have to look at them to see what you have.

As a side note, Andy was worried about batteries freezing even if they were charged to a reasonable level.  I found some neat information at:  http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx.  The following is pasted from that site:

{{{The only way that a battery can freeze is if it is left in a state of partial or complete discharged. As the state of charge in a battery decreases, the electrolyte becomes more like water and the freezing temperature increases. The freezing temperature of the electrolyte in a fully charged battery is -92.0oF. At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature reaches approximately 16.0oF.}}}

That sure tells you that you want to keep the batteries reasonably charged, but if you do, they will not freeze.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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