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Author Topic: MC-9 / 8V71 Woes  (Read 14960 times)
BlueScarecrow
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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2009, 07:40:14 PM »

Thanks to each and everyone of you!

You come across like warm genuine honest people.

Just what the doctor ordered.

See you at Quartzsite!!!

For Busnut Hams, I'll probably be on 146.490

Talk-In for the Quartzfest (Hamfest) is 146.550

Thanks!


Mike
N9EWS
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 09:27:46 AM by BlueScarecrow » Logged

1983 MCI / TMC MC-9 Crusader II - DD 8V71  Located in Scottsdale, AZ  85252

Do you think that's air you're breathing? - "The Matrix"
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« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2009, 07:50:47 PM »

If your engine is healthy, at around 50-60 degrees, the engine should blow a bit of white smoke for less then a minute.  Any more means the rings are worn, along with most other parts of the engine.  Also, with blowing black smoke, either your air cleaner is clogged or your injectors are worn out-also with worn rings you can get black smoke even when the engine is warmed up.
My 8V-71TATAIC, will blow some white smoke when cold, but stops in short order.  If you're planning on keeping the bus for a few years, it would be good piece of mind to have the engine overhauled (just replace what's worn out).  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2009, 08:19:33 PM »

You have gotten good advice.  

I would like to add that you will spend anywhere from $8K-13K for a Detroit rebuild.  It will probably be towards the larger number.  Absolutely DO NOT have "Joe Blow" do a rebuild unless you have you have more than one excellent reference.  

The rebuild should be a last resort.  The steps that folks have given you to try are quite important to finding the true condition of your engine.  

Do not overlook the oil recommendation.  Two strokes require a straight 40 wt oil (lots of threads on the subject - use the search feature).  No matter what, I would change the oil and filters before you take in on a long hard run.  

Watch in your mirrors and see what the smoke looks like.  On a flat highway at normal speeds and perhaps half throttle you should not have much smoke (after you run it HARD for an hour or so).  When you hit a hill and go to full throttle, you will get black smoke - that is normal (most folks drive the hills by the temperature gauge and watching for black smoke - back off the throttle a bit to minimize the black smoke). In addition, on long hills you will want to watch the tachometer (get one if you don't have one) and keep the engine RPM in the higher RPM range (1600 to 2100 - two strokes can not stand to be lugged down)

Might be a good idea to have someone in a car follow you and watch what happens under various condition (will need CB or cell communication).

The only issue with the 8V71 is that it will not have a turbo.  As a result, it will get a bit puny at altitude.  Some folks have added a turbo and intercooler for a really great power plant.

Jim
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 08:27:54 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2009, 08:46:33 PM »

Along with all the other excellent advice here I would like to hear more about your runaway symptoms.

Keep in mind that your fuel shuttoff is air actuated so if you tried to shut your motor off with less than 90 lbs of air it will not shut off. So did your motor refuse to shut off or did the rpm's climb like you were pushing down on the pedal progressively? Had you just started the motor or was this after a prolonged idle period. A few years ago my old bus had a sticky rack that would not let the motor return to idle after I let my foot off the pedal needless to say that was an unsettling feeling. That felt like a runaway motor and scared me badly.

If your handy I would recommend you remove the blower intake and get a good look at your blower airbox. It should be clean, if it isn't it is time to have it gone through or purchase a rebuilt and also heed the earlier posts advice about your airbox drains. A runaway engine is a very expensive problem to have. Have you checked your emergency air shutoff and made sure it's operational? Use a compressor to air the system to around 100lbs and flip the switch. If it's working correctly it should flip down and you can reset it afterwards. It's kind of like a air actuated mouse trap.
But remember none of your shutdown mechanisms will work without air.

Welcome to the board and have fun in Quartzite.

Rick
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I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.
Kwajdiver
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2009, 02:39:23 AM »

The guys at  Michelangleo of Phoenix are great.  They bent over backwards to help me.  They have a trailer full of MCI-9 parts.  They let me stay in the bus a couple nights in their yard.  The shop rate is very good.  Do I have the phone number,,,, hummm, it's in the bus... 7000 miles away.  I will see if I can find them online tomorrow.  If not, believe I can find the address.  I know, they are just off the interstate, south of the airport.
Tell them Bill with the big blue bus said hello.

Bill
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Auburndale, Florida
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V-6-92 Detroit, Allison 5 spd auto
Kwajalein Atoll, RMI
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2009, 06:00:43 AM »

Welcome Mike,

I've got an 8v-71N in my RTS and I like it ! Like a TIMEX !   

I don't post much, but I've been a lurker for a long long time. Got my bus in '97.

I'll be in Quartzsite Jan 22-24 for the fun.  Also a Ham - KC7JD and I'll look for you on whatever freq. was in your post Grin

I'm looking forward to putting faces to the names I've seen here for years!

Again, Welcome Mike
Phil in Prescott
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AZ
1980- RTS - 8v71N w/N-65 A-timed/ 4:10 gears
towing a Jeep Wrangler.  99.9% completed (15th Yr)
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2009, 08:44:10 PM »

Michelangleo of Phoenix
602-340-0018

1315 East Gibson
Building C.
Phoenix, Az

They are between,   S 7th st and S 16th st.

They even let me help work on my bus... Now find me a shop that will do that..... Grin

Good Luck,

Bill
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Auburndale, Florida
MCI-9
V-6-92 Detroit, Allison 5 spd auto
Kwajalein Atoll, RMI
cody
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2009, 09:55:44 PM »

I'm not a good mechanic, actually I'm a very poor mechanic but I've been following this thread with great interest, from what I'm hearing I really don't see a broken engine yet, what I do see tho is an engine in great need of some maintance, I've got a gut feeling the air filter is plugged, probably the fuel filters are bad too, I've also got a gut feeling the engine is full of 15w40 or maybe worse, I think maybe some bearings should be repacked and some grease fittings should be lubed and I think we've got another busnut that is going to enjoy his hobby with probably no more problems than what we are all accustomed to as routine. Correct me if I'm wrong but lets try some routine maintence and have a BUS mechanic look it over before we panic, does this make sence to anyone besides me?  Unless a person has some deep pockets and plan on putting a lot of miles on the bus each day, even a bus with a somewhat weak engine will usually give a lot of great service for what a normal busnut (can I say normal) would give it for a long time.
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2009, 10:58:29 PM »

Cody,

Great advice from all.  I think Mike's greatest opportunity is to meet Clifford(luvr) and Don Fairchild and the rest.  Get names and numbers and start your Rolodex.

I am no heavy equip op nor am I a trucker and when I buy my bus it will make it an even "once" that I have owned a diesel.  But I have been a shade tree mech for long enuf that I can at least understand MOST of what i am told.  Now that stuff about lugging a DD two stroke is so thick that you must have gotten the message within mere hours of tuning in to the board.  So I got a chance to drive a 8V71 for the first time this past summer.  Turns out I knew NOTHING and was doing almost everything wrong.  I started off fine....shifted into second without a hitch and could up shift to third and down shift to first with a min of difficulty.  Besides slamming my hand in the door and also, for insurance, got myself groin kicked, I LUGGED THE FRIGGEN ENGINE.  Many time Mike and yes it was embarrassing.  You need to take a check out ride with a pro.  You can ruin a 2 stroke in 1,000 miles but some will say 942.5 and others will swear it will go 1007 miles if abused.  But who is counting?

Get a filter minder and make that your very first equip purchase.  Then you will be able to SEE if your filter is OK ans save a hundred bucks or so. 

Having 2 stroke approved oil in it is CRITICAL.  Have the oil in the engine now analyzed....$30.  That will tell you what it is and if it is wrong you need to do other stuff.  Lots of miles on 15 w 40 as verified from the analysis with bearing metal in the oil would mean turning in new bearings FIRST after the minder.  Analyze your coolant also.  Rads are a grand or more.

Take the bus to a car wash and flush out the fins from the inside out and outside in.  That has solved many overheating problems. 

How long should you try to run it if it is overheating?  In a 92 I think 215 means thousands of dollars worth of damage but the 71's are more durable, I am told.  So what does that mean????Maybe they will go to 217 degrees before horrific damage....don't know.  I am sure you got the drift.  They have auto shutdown circuits that actuate for both HI temp and low oil pressure and some have a low oil level start disable. 

Get the book for the engine and bus ASAP.  Maybe QS will be a source.

Wish we could meet at QS.  I hope to be in your shoes in a year or so.

John
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Slow Rider
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2009, 06:24:22 AM »

The only caveat I would add to this is be carefull with the pressure at the car wash.  Depending on the age and condition of the radiator you can damage it.

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=10372.0

That thread speaks of pressure washers specifically but ....  just be carefull, a new radiator is probably around 4K.

Frank
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The MCI has landed..... We are home.
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2009, 09:27:21 AM »



The red flag for me is Church owned. Churches suffer from a lack of maintenance as a rule. All of the suggestions have been great, so I will repeat them. Before you make any decisions do a full service then run the bus up and down the road at temp for a time then check it out to see whats going on with it. ( Think Phoenix to Tucson and back )

Let us know how it goes and we can help you.

Don
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2009, 09:54:59 AM »

Don, Phoenix to Quartzsite is about the same mileage I would like to see him have the oil , the air filter and fuel filters changed before the trip what do you think ? that being a church bus no telling what it has for engine oil .
? for you did you find out the price of a set of rebuilt rockers and shafts for the 8v92 for me.




good luck 
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Eagle Andy
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« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2009, 10:13:52 AM »

Yup Iam will bill micheiangleo in phx is a great shop. Good service and great owners , Even offered me a job when I was there lol . Bill I think we met there you were just getting ready to pull out when I showed up and you showed me you Bus .  Andy
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Kwajdiver
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2009, 01:47:02 PM »

Yes, Andy, believe you are correct.

Mike, keep us informed how your doing with the bus.

Bill
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Auburndale, Florida
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V-6-92 Detroit, Allison 5 spd auto
Kwajalein Atoll, RMI
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2009, 05:02:58 PM »

Welcome Mike
Great advice here. Get it serviced properly then run the $$$$ out of it before you send the big money.

My Thoughts John
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If It Can't Be Grown Then It Has To Be Mined
John Riddle
Wells NV
1984 MC9
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