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Author Topic: Leaving at 5 am to pick up silver 8v92 for repower  (Read 6604 times)
RickB
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« on: December 29, 2009, 06:17:17 PM »

Well... I finally took the plunge. Have about 20 hours each way ahead of me and a friend driving to pull and pick up my 8V92.

Not exactly what I had planned to do for my vavcation but I just found the right deal and pulled the trigger and Lea and the kids actually understand!! truth be told I think they are tired of hearing daddy's "underpowered" complaints.

Need to be back Monday so pray that the darn thing you would come out reasonably easy and for safe travels.

Thinking about using truck tires to keep from damaging the oil pan. Got heavy duty chains. The only thing we don't have lined up yet is a back hoe or a loader to lift the thing onto the trailer.

Hopefully I come back with all my fingers and without a hernia!

Rick
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Eagle Andy
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 06:25:58 PM »

Cool Rick what are you replacing ? your going to love the big motor , I know I love mine I didn't at first never owning a DD but hech had to start someplace. Good luck and drive safe.  Cool
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 06:28:25 PM »

Good luck Rick, Keep us posted, I would love to have one in my bus just don't know if it would be worth it. Have a safe trip. Jason
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 06:45:26 PM »

Rick, you will love that engine they can be set to do anything but walk on water.
They like 1400 to 1800 rpm unlike your 8v71 which doesn't mind 2100 rpm.
Anyway could you post the serial number for us.




good luck and have a safe trip
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Van
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 07:19:23 PM »

Good luck Rick, I know that feeling real well


I remember going for ours, be sure to pick up some 4x6 or 6x8's to block it up and cross tie the front and rear, then boogity boogity, Grin
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 07:26:53 PM »

Van, did it damage the oil pan to sit it like that?


Clifford I will forward the serial as soon as I get it. I do know this, it is a new style 8v92 silver. It has the blower bypass. The pictures the guy sent me of this thing look real promising. It is cleaner than my current motor which is really clean.
I've got high hopes for next summer tooling around with the family.

Andy, I am switching out my superb running, awesome 8v71.

Rebuilding the tranny as well over the winter.

She's gonna haul bootie. Current tuning is 475 HP.
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 07:37:32 PM »

Van, in your last picture, do you have a 3rd engine on the roof rack?  Grin

Best of luck Rick!  Keep us drooling with pictures please!

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
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gumpy
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 07:50:40 PM »

... truth be told I think they are tired of hearing daddy's "underpowered" complaints.



Really?  Imagine that!!   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Craig Shepard
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RickB
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2009, 08:11:51 PM »

Gumpy,

What can I say when your right, you're really right Grin Grin Shocked

I am glad I have friends like you and Brian D who put up with me.

Still trying to figure out how Van got those engines to sit on their oil pans and under pressure from the chains, they didn't collapse.

The truck tire idea is probably overkill but I've waited so long for this that I sure don't want to make a misyake if I can help it.

We are cutting basically everything hoses, linkages, battery cables. I don't need any of that stuff.

Now, if we can just find a nice farmer nearby with a big tractor that can lift this thing.

good nite 4:30 comes awful early to this guy.

Rick

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Van
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2009, 09:09:56 PM »

Rick, the pans never touched the deck, the 692 mine is on the rear of the trailer and was supported by the cross members and 6x8's, the one on the front Clifford's 871 was supported by just the timbers with about 3" clearance under neath. Maybe the cross members will still be attached to your engine, should be no problem though, just block it along side the pan and go for it (remember the timbers, getsome just in case, and check it every 100 or so miles so's ya don't end up wearin' it Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy.good luck
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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 01:28:30 AM »

Ah yes, I remember the fun.....
     Iver.
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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 06:07:53 AM »

what are the dimensional differences between a 8V-71 and a 8V-92?  Are the mounting points and such the same?  Will a 71 flywheel and other ancillaries fit a 92?  Are there 8V92 mechanical engines or just DDEC? 

wow, lots of questions!  But it's so hard to find all the knowledge that so many of you have from years of experience!

thanks, Brian
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 06:15:27 AM »

Brian, the 8v92 is about 2 inches longer than a 8v71 and no the flywheel will not fit they are mechanical or DDEC The DDEC series being 1 to IV.
I like the later models engines like the DDEC blocks don't leak as much and have a better oil pan sealing system and cooling.  
I think the new style block came on the market in 1986 or 1987 maybe later the easy way to tell is the special bolts and the wider spacing of the bolts on the oil pan and the block will work for mechanical or DDEC.
I hope for Rick if that is a mechanical 475 hp it comes with a fuel modulator those 90's injectors will blow some black smoke.
 And if the air cleaner is available from the donor he needs that also the 8v71 air filter won't handle the air for a 8v92.
Rick pickup all the piping and rubber fitting you can get for the air system those cost big bucks when you go to buy new



good luck
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 06:49:41 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 09:43:42 AM »

I like the later models engines like the DDEC blocks don't leak as much and have a better oil pan sealing system and cooling. 

OKAY Clifford, I really like you and all the great info you provide, but I'm taking exception with that comment. LOL  Grin
Happy New Year, Will
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RickB
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2009, 09:07:15 PM »

Well I had high expectations for this motor and it has some issues that are troubling to say the least.
There is a small piece of impeller blade missing on the intake side of the turbo and of all things a piece of a drill bit was stuck to the drain plug when we drained the oil.
Some of the +'s are it has jakes. It was running quite well judging by the exhaust. We had to pull the Y pipe and the two turbo exhaust pipes so I got a good look at the exhaust manifolds and they looked as if the motor had been running really well. The oil and antifreeze looked clear and good. We almost have it out already after a couple hours.
The biggest issue we had was that my young helper was pulling the bellhousing bolts that connect the tranny and the motor together and after pulling the front motor mount I slid under the motor to get at the rear motor mounts and saw that they actually are mounted on the tranny so if my friend had pulled the last two bolts the  only thing holding the tranny would have been the input pilot shaft of the tranny. I am fairly certain that the motor wouldn't have fallen but it was a reminder how careful we need to be when working on these giant motors.
I have decided to take the motor straight to my mechanic and have him pull the pan and heads to see what kind of damage may have happened due to the turbine blade and if things look reasonably good I will have him put an inframe kit in it.
We will be carefully proceeding with caution tomorrow to get this thing safely on and strapped to the trailer.
I have to admit these were a couple of my worst fears come to life but we keep on keeping on because we're busnuts right?
Going to bed. Happy new year everyone!
Rick
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2010, 06:47:18 PM »

We got it pulled and loaded this morning. The tranny pilot shaft was super difficult to get out but we were on the road at 12:30.
Serial # 8VF091830*
Amazing what some boom trucks can lift he lifted the whole front end off the ground!
Feeling better about my purchase today.
Motor has 66k miles on it
We're on our way back home staying in Charleston WV tonite.
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« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2010, 07:29:47 PM »


Feeling better about my purchase today.
Motor has 66k miles on it
We're on our way back home staying in Charleston WV tonite.


Good to hear.  Drive safe tomorrow.
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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2010, 10:40:03 AM »

We got it pulled and loaded this morning. The tranny pilot shaft was super difficult to get out but we were on the road at 12:30.
Serial # 8VF091830*
Amazing what some boom trucks can lift he lifted the whole front end off the ground!
Feeling better about my purchase today.
Motor has 66k miles on it
We're on our way back home staying in Charleston WV tonite.


Nice low mileage!
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RickB
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2010, 07:23:38 AM »

Made it home at 2:30 in the morning last night.Whew! this was a difficult task but if everything goes well it will be worth it in the long run.

I am planning on pulling the motor off the trailer tomorrow at my brother in laws heated shop where I plan to pull all the accessories (that I don't plan on using) fan, Delco Remy alternator, etc and get this old girl ready to make the trip to Central diesel for a test firing. I have to buy a spin on oil filter assembly and install it as this engine was using an outside the engine compartment filter and I will need to change that.

Clifford I am hoping you can give me some info on the serial # that I typed in an earlier post I would sure appreciate it.

I am going to need a number of things that some of you may have advice as to where I may find them at reasonable prices. I will need a shallower oil pan for sure and a new bellhousing as well (I will find a picture and post the configuration of it as soon as I can).

I will need the 8V92 MCI 9 cradle as well. I may need a double oil cooler also as I am not sure the 8v71 dual oil cooler interchange with the 92?.

I also need a set of used jake brake valve covers as mine were damaged in the motor removal.

I plan to pressure wash it and remove as much of the stuff as I can that I won't be using. The pressure plate is probably gonna be a bear as it is quite rusty.

I figure not only do I enjoy working on my own stuff (don't we all?) but the idea of having my mechanic put on a fresh oil filter and oil change or remove a fan assembly at $75 an hour is just not a good use of my money.

I appreciate those of you that have kept in touch with me throughout this adventure.

Well it's off to Church I go and I just get to sit and listen today instead of leading Worship.

I am looking forward to that on this 20 degree below Sunday.

Thanks again folks for your help and encouragement.

Rick






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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2010, 07:47:19 AM »

Only thing I tell you Rick is it 83-84 year model and left the factory at set 445.hp.
Remote mount your oil filter if you can Pedco has parts for that or a spin on.
? why do you need a bellhousing are MCI's special.
You are going to need a  new flex plate $$$ .  
I have the standard sae 1 bellhousing,valve covers,remote mount filter and double cooler but shipping may be more than they are worth. 
I have a shallow pan for a later model block it won't work on that block
I also have a 24 volt starter for that engine I will give you free I am tired of moving it around also better check the torque converter rating on your 740 now and be sure it will handle a 8v92


good luck
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 07:52:51 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2010, 07:48:32 AM »

Rick, glad things worked out on the trip ! Good thing you were not pulling the motor up here, you may not have any fingers left...they would have broken off in the cold.  Shocked

David Benck
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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2010, 07:54:03 AM »

Rick, glad things worked out on the trip ! Good thing you were not pulling the motor up here, you may not have any fingers left...they would have broken off in the cold.  Shocked

Rickb doesn't live far from you.  Maybe 30 or 40 miles so he is dealing with the cold.  It is darn cold here in Minnesota.  -14F right now.
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RickB
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2010, 08:03:14 AM »

Clifford,

I may be able to use the bellhousing but il looks like a totally different configuration.

I am rebuilding my 2nd gear start 754 and I will have my tranny guy look at that torque rating.

Let me look into shipping and I will get back to you but I am not gonna do any long drives for parts any time soon!!!

How much for the flex plate??? best guesstimate?

Dave and Brian I second that... it is cold brrrrrr.

I plan to have my engine guy start it with the current turbo I just don't feel like spending money on a rebuilt one until I know that there is no major damage done by those above mentioned froeign objects that are unaccounted for.

I'll update with pics soon and I will let you all know what I find when I pull the oil pan.

Rick

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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2010, 11:52:05 AM »

My turbo is part # 8924254 where can I get a good rebuilt unit? I belive it's a Garrett AR but it's too cold to go out and check!!!

Also, when pulling the accessory drives do I make covers for the bellhousing mounts out of plexiglass or are the accessory drives not oiled by the engine lubrication system?

I want to pull the compressor, alternator, fan, power steering pump, A/C compressor just to get them cleaned up and I am not sure if the accessory drive mounts are going to leak alot of oil once we start the motor.

Rick




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« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2010, 12:41:24 PM »

Rick, that is a model TV 8301 turbo with a A/R of 1.39 most 475 hp use the TV 8511 with a A/R of 1.39 I checked and the engine is a 1983 model anyway for you to tell what injectors are in the engine like a tag on a valve cover.


good luck
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 01:56:46 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2010, 01:15:12 PM »

Boy Clifford you really know your stuff.

Thanks

John
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« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2010, 01:49:58 PM »

Rick,  here is the factory parts breakdown for your turbocharger.   

If you have a chance to remove the turbo and check the turbine wheel.   This will tell you if anything has run thru the turbine wheel.

You have mentioned the FOD damage to the compressor wheel, check if there is wheel rub from trashed bearings.

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« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2010, 02:20:53 PM »

I wish we had a Clifford here in SC
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RickB
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« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2010, 03:02:46 PM »

Clifford,

I wholeheartedly agree you are a wealth of info and experience. Thanks for all your help.

Zero clearance the turbo feels and spins perfectly, no play whatsoever. Should that reassure me that my motor didn't swallow this debris? That would be reassuring indeed.
First thing I did was spin it and check for wobble or end play felt like a new turbo just a piece missing out of one blade. A small triangular piece about 1/4" across. Looked like it had happened a while ago but since the motor has not run in a couple years that could be the reason for the appearance.

Wanted badly to go out and work on it today but it is far too cold.

So regarding the turbo where do I buy a rebuilt or do I have this one r&r'd?

Does anyone care to venture a guess as to where the darn piece of drill bit came from??

Clifford, in a two stroke Detroit does the air come through the turbo, into the blower through the airbox and into the intake ports on the liners or does it travel through the crankcase and into a transfer port like a lawnmower 2 stroke. The reason I ask is if it does travel through the crankase and through a transfer port (reed valve) wouldn't debris be as likely to end up in the oil pan as the cylinder liner? I plan to scope the cylinders and see if I see any evidence of debris having traveled into a combustion chamber and if I do I will probably have my mechaninc just put an in frame kit in.

Guys, what is your collective experience with this kind of turbo turbine failure?

I had the same exact thing with my last wet sleeve motor they saw no evidence in my cylinder put a new turbo on and I sold that motor with 40k fairly trouble free miles, it started hard though and had alot of white smoke on startup especially on cold mornings.

Once again thanks for being so helpful I an really grateful that all of you are here for each other and for me.

Rick



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« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2010, 03:15:15 PM »

Rick, the air will go from the turbo charge side to the blower and into the aftercooler.   You could get the different pieces to add intercoolers.   This would put LESS heat load on your engine cooling system.    After leaving the charge cooling the intake/charge air is directed to the liner ports by way of the airbox.

You have mentioned the turbine wheel damage,  the question is do you have broken turbine wheel blades?   Hot side vs cold side?   Where is the damage.   If you can take a picture of the damage and post it I can "help" you..   

As far as a rebuild, IF the turbo has sustained any damage to the turbine wheel or compressor wheel you might want to call your local  Detroit Dealer and shop different dealers for a exchange rebuilt turbocharger.     
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RickB
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« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2010, 03:29:03 PM »

The exhaust/Hot side is fine the intake/cold side has one blade with a small 1/8" to 1/4" traingular piece missing and a couple small ripples on two other blades. i would take a picture but it's dark out and way below zero outside.

Thanks for the airflow answer, that is exactly how I thought the air traveled into my intake ports but a friend reminded me that most small 2 gasoline two strokes actually route the air through the crankcase and I needed clarification.

Zero clearance how do you feel about those "ebay" trubo's that we see so often. Is it just not worth taking a chance on them?

Thanks,
Rick
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« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2010, 03:30:32 PM »

Rick, can you look on the back of the blower and tell me if it is has a bypass it is about 1 1/2 round 2 inches tall and will have hose from it back to the blower and will be helded in place with a horse shoe type clamp with 2 bolts.  




good luck
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« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2010, 03:33:55 PM »

The exhaust/Hot side is fine the intake/cold side has one blade with a small 1/8" to 1/4" traingular piece missing and a couple small ripples on two other blades. i would take a picture but it's dark out and way below zero outside.

Thanks for the airflow answer, that is exactly how I thought the air traveled into my intake ports but a friend reminded me that most small 2 gasoline two strokes actually route the air through the crankcase and I needed clarification.

Zero clearance how do you feel about those "ebay" trubo's that we see so often. Is it just not worth taking a chance on them?

Thanks,
Rick


The speed that the turbo is turning, and the potential for progressive damage would give me concern to stay away from any kind of cheap turbo, but rather an OEM like Reliabilt which would have some warranty
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« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2010, 03:51:49 PM »

Clifford it does have the blower bypass valve

Dave, the only reason I ask is sometimes those things are brand new OEM equipment. There is one on ebay right now that is selling for alot less than dealer prices but it's for a 6V92.

Rick
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« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2010, 05:39:04 PM »

There are some great deals on Ebay IF you know what your are getting.   I have bought turbo cores off Ebay with the intention of rebuilding the turbochargers.   If you do buy a core, do it with the mindset of rebuilding it.   Unless it is a factory Detroit New/Old stock or factory reman.  Do not mix and match Detroit turbochargers.   You will not be able to run a 6V92 on a 8V.    If you want to jump up to the TV85 that is a very good turbo.   

Right now with your damaged compressor wheel you will be into a overhaul/rebuild around $675 to 750.00.   If you have a worn bearing bore or seal bore in your bearing housing or turbine wheel damage the cost will quickly add up.   

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