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Author Topic: picking a paint color  (Read 4746 times)
crown
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« on: January 06, 2010, 10:28:50 AM »

 well that was easy with tons of colors out there my pick was easy i went to a closeout at a paint place
 to pick up house paint and started walking around this warehouse and find a dusty pallet with auto paint
 the guy lets me take one to a local body shop to check it out the guy opens it and tells me its a good
 paint and pours a little in a gun and shoots a scrap of fiberglass looks great i go back to warehouse
 and there are 14 1/2 gal all the same color so bus will now be red i was thinking of red or wine so i was
lucky after dealing on price as i was buying all i got the whole lot for $ 185 went one line and found the
same paint in white for $ 206 a gallon and red cost a lot more so for $ 185 for 14 1/2 gallons i am a
happy bus nut  it looks a lot like the red on pats senic
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john
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kyle4501
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 10:31:46 AM »

  it looks a lot like the red on pats senic

That is too red! You're gonna need to be passing out sun glasses!
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John316
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 10:34:02 AM »

Go for it, John!!!

God bless,

John
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 11:02:51 AM »

Crown,

If you know the mfr of the paint and such then you can select your additives with confidence.  I used a "fisk eye" reducer, activator that makes the paint hard and a additional "extra" hardener, UV filter that was extremely important, reducer of the proper "speed" and I am certain I am forgetting something else.  I spent a bunch for the chems I added and I think my paint cost was 50 or 60% of the total.  I have also sprayed the cheapest Nason they offered when Nason was a bottom shelf product and added nothing but reducer and it is still looking really good after 15 years of Orygun rain and such.

There is red and maybe a little yellow in your paint.  Have the shop shoot it with their analyzer and get the exact mix quantities that define your color.  You can then blend in other pigments and get the Burgandy/wine or any other color you might want that contains red in the mix formula.  Brown for orange and black for darker right down to black black.  Boy did you get away with murder for price.

You will have 28 gal after it is reduced so you will be able to paint more than one bus.  This situation of yours should expand you list of friends. Grin

John
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 11:14:18 AM »

Crown,

I am surprised Kyle didn't say that looks like one of Cliff's deals.

Go for it and Greaaaaaaaat shopping there.........

Cliff
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crown
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2010, 11:27:39 AM »

 the paint is sherwin williams acrylyd acrylic enamel the color is called raymond orange ? but it sure is red
 i went to the local auto paint store today and they sell sherwin he told me it a one shot does not need
clear coat he also said i could use a hardner with it thats all i known for now if anyone knowns more let me
known  its more then i need but at that deal well who could say no will  paint the toad to match john
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john
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JohnEd
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2010, 11:43:27 AM »

Sherwin Williams is one of the top brands.  Spendy!  I shot my Z with Burgands and the color was rich and that stuff laid down like it was hand rubbed laquor.  I added a ton of additives to it.  I think the one I forgot was the one that makes the final job smoother and less orange peel prone.

It isn't called "single shot" it is called "single stage".  I think the use of any "clear coat" is bad advice.  This product worked really really well for me and at that time I could afford anything that caught my eye.

Go look at the color charts for what your color will look like after it dries.  And it needs to be thoroughly mixed before color checking.

I might comment that SOMEBODY rejected that paint order for SOME reason.  Some body might have written down the wrong colors or quantities of pigment for the selected color and made up a batch of "mistake" BUT I bet they got the label for the color to agree with the original order.  If it said "Midnight Purple" you wouldn't accept that, now would you?  Get the shop to color analyze the stuff and then determine where you should go with pigments.  It specifically does NOT look like "Orange" to me either.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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crown
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2010, 12:16:07 PM »

 thanks john anymore advice just let me known thanks john
ps do you want to paint my bus when the time comes sounds like you known how to do it right
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john
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bryanhes
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2010, 01:28:50 PM »

Crown,

I did auto paint and custom motorcycle paint for years. Most people have a tough time painting with "single stage" paint. If you are doing it that way be prepared to do lots of sanding and buffing out the orange peel and or runs. That is if someone is not experienced with "single stage". If it is sprayed to heavy you will have lots of runs. To little and you could have dry spots, orange peel & cloudiness and not very good coverage. And this can happen for several reasons. Typically with this type you will only need a reducer and hardener. There are also additives such as "fish eye" eliminator (it helps keep from having the little deep divets in the paint mostly caused by oils or chemicals on the primed surface before painting. Keep in mind painting a bus will be nothing like painting a small car. The key would be to get it painted completely on one side in the same day or you may end up with a color variance. Also make sure you use the exact amount of reducer at each paint gun fill or that will change the color slightly as well.

The key is prep, prep, prep. Use plenty of prep-sol. A good surface cleaner before painting. There are several brands. I always used PPG.

I am also adding this link for troubleshooting paint issues from PPG: https://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyres/5C4BB437-C36C-4E3F-99B8-AF274761D58E/0/troubleshooting.pdf

HTH,
Bryan
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 02:14:28 PM by bryanhes » Logged
JohnEd
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 02:43:21 PM »

Crown,

My degrees are in business.  My hobbies have always been with my hands and almost always automotive associated.  Until I painted my 30 ft RV at the ripe old age of 55 I had never done more than  prep work and all of that was gone over with sanding primer by pros.  Soooo, even with the one RV and one SUV I don't meet even the most hypothetical definition of an expert or "experienced".  Now, facts be known, I have talked long and hard with both experts and "experienced" in association with that RV job.  You are getting product and procedure and technique info I gained.  The encouragement you are getting from me is the result of the SUPERB job I got from listening to those guys and one lady who knew "what they are all using".

My days of painting my own stuff are long gone...let alone that of others.  And I regret that on both counts. Thanks for the invite,. though.

Having developed a "professional ear" to determine who was selling a bill of goods at the conference table, I would add that Bryan sounds like an excellent source of data.  I agree with everything he has said and that I am usually less cautious than the experts I would be more cautious that he in regards to the additives.  Fish eye preventer is almost beyond critical if you are using a heavily dosed single stage METALIC,  If that fish eye stuff wasn't made specifically for metallic Emron Poly then Emron put it on the map and in the painters tool box.  Silver Emron is made with clear to which is added a smidgen of black pigment and lots of silver of the granularity you desire.  That stuff will fish eye if you paint over fresh primer and the car never leaves the booth between coats.  The silver will also orient itself different between sections and the job will look like the fenders were painted as an afterthought or whatever parties don't "agree" with the rest.  You aren't doing Emron or Metallic but the sensitivity of the paint to contamination, while lots less critical, still remains.  But, Bryan has the experience with the current field of products and fish eye preventer was so very very expensive back in the day and may still be.  I disagree with him strenuously on not using a UV filter unless SW already has it in the product as a standard feature.  Mine did in fact have it and I added the optional dose anyway but my consideration was living in S Kalifornia.  Nuff said.

Now about  doing it your self.  DO THAT!  I painted my RV outside in front of a barn on a dirt road.  I kid you not.  Done mostly at first light and after thoroughly wetting down the dirt prior to shooting.  High tech hillbilly dust suppression.  Not a single speck or bug in any of the vertical surfaces....not one.  The front little horizontal surface was decidedly "rough" by comparison,  Buses are mostly vertical sided...soooo...  I used a reducer that was "slower" than the temperature called for.  That should have put me at risk for more ruins but I have none showing but I "blew" one down the side but only one and it doesn't show, as I said.  I used a spendy De Villbus professional gun and that is critical advice I often heard.  I think my Harbor freight would have worked.  I even stretched my material by spraying closer than I should have.  Trick there is "move fast' and long strokes and Bryan is probably shuddering at this point.  And I wasn't using that great SW product....I was using junk level Nason Wimbledon Tan.  I am looking at it out the window as I type and it looks great.  Little dull cause I have NEVER waxed it in all the years since 96(I guess).  Coat of Mc Guires would bring it back to "as new".

If you can paint in grass or inside a huge building you would be far better off.  As I said, even a dirt road will do.  HIRE a strong BACK body shop worker to help you and guide you.  My guess is 40 hrs including shooting and much longer for admiring.  Buy the DeVillbus and a taping machine and a couple different widths of plastic taping material.  Don't even think about newspaper and tape. for a bus.  The taping machines used to be expensive but they now 20 or 30 bucks.  The $200(+) De Villbus as well.  Get tutoring on using the gun and READ those  setup instructions many times.

I want some payback on this.....post pictures. Grin

As always,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
bryanhes
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 04:00:32 PM »

John,

I have been out of painting for about 4 years so some things may have changed. I know that a clear coat usually has UV protectant values in it but I had never heard of an additive sold seperately for single stage paint (acrylic, lacquers or urethane enamel). I called a friend that owns a wholesale auto paint store and he said he has never heard of one either. Where did you get what you are talking about from? Just curious.

With the two-stage system, a pigmented basecoat is covered with a clear or slightly tinted topcoat that gives the base its gloss and UV protection. The alternative "single stage" paint contains the gloss and UV protectants in the same material as the pigment.

Enamel, popular in the 70's, is also still available if you're looking for a coating that's inexpensive, durable and thick, a couple coats of enamel provides the same film thickness as 20 coats of hand-rubbed lacquer.

Urethane is the first choice of today's custom painters. It bonds well, provides excellent protection from UV rays, is durable, and offers a vibrance of color not found in the older type paints. Plus, it was the introduction of urethane paints in the 80's that brought about the two-stage, basecoat/clearcoat paint system  that is prevalent today.

Each system has its pros and cons. I do like "single stage" paint. Some advantages and dis-advantages are: Clearcoat gives the paint a higher gloss than a "single stage" but not as much depth. With a "single stage" I can put on five coats, wet-sand with 500-grit, fix any imperfections, then spray on five more coats. Two-stage paint has a fairly short window of time between the application of the final basecoat and when the clear has to go on. I can usually shoot two maybe three coats before I have to clear. The UV protection offered by a clear coat helps to keep the pigment looking fresh longer.

If you are going to use a paint with metal flake or pearls you would want to use a base clear system as you can not sand on those products without distorting the paints look.

I know this was lengthy but hope it helps!

Bryan
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 04:07:49 PM by bryanhes » Logged
crown
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2010, 04:24:21 PM »

 wow thanks for all the help still need to do a lot before painting bus but will keep you up to date
 can i paint the roof now before i put in vents and a/c then tape off roof  when i paint the rest of bus ?
 nothing is to long when you can learn from it thanks again
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john
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bryanhes
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2010, 04:38:50 PM »

Crown,

Usually there is no problem cutting holes after you paint if you use a good masking tape where you are going to cut and cut through the masking tape it will keep from shredding paint. I like to use two layers of tape.  I will usually take a brush (if you can not spray) and go around the opening to coat the exposed raw metal. I would use a primer/sealer and then paint. Never too much protection from rust.

I still enjoy the spraying part just hate all the sanding  Roll Eyes

Bryan

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crown
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2010, 05:39:25 PM »

 hi bryan what i was thinking off doing was cut all holes first then paint roof let dry then put in a/c vents ect.
 then later on in the year  paint rest of bus and tape off whole roof with plastic . the roof is aluminum with
 factory paint in good shape how best to prep the roof thanks all this imfo is very helpfull john
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john
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2010, 05:50:02 PM »

Since you saved so much on paint, spend a little extra and buy quality masking tape, like 3M or similar...don't skimp here either!
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