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Author Topic: ac compressor weight  (Read 3756 times)
christopher
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« on: July 30, 2006, 06:00:47 AM »

anyone know how much an ac compressor weights in an mci
thanx
chris
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grantgoold
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2006, 07:13:16 AM »

When I removed a 05-g from a friends unit, we guessed at about 90-115 lbs.

Good luck!

Grant
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2006, 07:28:09 AM »

Yep, I agree with Grant....my MC9 Carrier compressor was in the 100+ lbs range.  I removed it by myself by unbolting it and very carefully pulling it out of the side service door.  It rotates and will slide right out. DON"T get under it! Could hurt. 
Remove the compressor from the mount and then remove the mount.  Makes a nice location forr 2 group 31 batterys. 
I located my cranking batteries there.   Still have not made a perm battery box for them, but they're comfy anyway. 
Much more accessible than the house batteries in the original bus battery box.  The OEM 8D batts are a PITA to service. 
Cheers, JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2006, 09:04:19 AM »

I'm thinking they weigh a lot more 115 lbs.  Two of us could barely lift mine.

In high school (18 years ago), I used to carry 100 lb bags of sweeping compound and the compressor was a lor heavier than those.

Brian Elfert
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TomC
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2006, 09:14:29 AM »

O5G 6 cylinder weighs 146lb.  05K 4 cylinder weighs 108lb.  What is interesting is that with the 05G producing 37cuin displacement, there is the small TM16 compressor that produces 10cuin and weighs 11lb.  What's to say that you could run three TM16 for 30cuin and only weighs 33lb total?  I checked with a rebuilder and the 05G costs $1,250 exchange rebuilt.  Now the larger compressors we use with Freightliner are of the 13 cu in size and cost $350 new with clutch.  So use two of the Sanden types instead of the big 05G, which would be close enough in BTU's.  I was cruising the Carrier site and pulled up their bus systems. If I were to have an over the road system,  I would use one of the Carrier systems that have a roof top condenser, and two split evaporators inside the bus.  You would then completely free up the under space, have a new system that wouldn't be constantly bleeding you for maintenence.  And can assure you, it won't be anywhere near as complicated as the old original system now in the bus. Course, these are A/C only units.  For heat, just put in two floor mounted heaters that run off the engine.  One of the reasons the big original units were so complicated was that the A/C is usually run with the heat for dehumidifcation.  But what's to say you couldn't do that anyway?  Good Luck, TomC
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steamguy56
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 10:48:38 AM »

Not sure of compressor alone all the a/c and heating condencers..coils were just over 1000 lbs
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2006, 12:21:39 PM »

Tom is right, 140 pounds.

Tom, can you run two compressors together in the same system?  How would they connected, series or parallel?
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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2006, 01:29:04 PM »

Not sure of compressor alone all the a/c and heating condencers..coils were just over 1000 lbs

You got some heavy coils there.  I stripped my evaporator and condensor down to just the coils and came up with 260 lbs.  This also included the baseboard radiators for passenger heat. 

The condenser and evaporator had motors and all the other garbage removed.  It took me 4 or 5 hours to strip them down, but I made $40 or $50 an hour for my effort since the stripped coils were worth much more.

Brian Elfert
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kyle4501
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2006, 01:40:36 PM »

Tom is right, 140 pounds.

Tom, can you run two compressors together in the same system? How would they connected, series or parallel?

How would you keep oil in each compressor?

I think I would rather have 2 seperate systems. If one dies, you still have something.
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steamguy56
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2006, 02:10:40 PM »

Brian was curious the wieght taken off the bus so the coils, compressor, double blower, mongster fan in the dryer compartment alot of misc. one wieght 1000
It was seperated when it was unloaded
Danny
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2006, 03:36:53 PM »

Brian,
I want to hear how this one would be done too!
Nick-

Tom is right, 140 pounds.

Tom, can you run two compressors together in the same system? How would they connected, series or parallel?
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2006, 03:42:41 PM »

Here's the specs. from the cut sheet


05G Compressor
Quality, capacity, and reliability:
 Type: 6-cylinder, open drive
Oil level: ½ of sightglass
Displacement: 37 in ccc (606cm ccc) 41in ccc (672cm ccc) optional
Weight: 146 lb (66 kg) including clutch
Speed range: 400 - 2200 RPM (2500 RPM intermittent speeds acceptable)
Allowable belt side loading: 300 lb (136 kg)
Oil charge: 7 ¾ pints (3.67 liters)

This has been my delima in the past.

The smaller automobile compressors like the A6 and the imports are at their full capacity at 7500 rpm.

And our bus engines turn on average at 2400 rpm. this means the small compressors would only be able

to put out 1/3 of the cooling that they can produce. Unless someone has an idea on how to spin them

faster on a bus engine??? Let me know!   This is only one of the reasons I have kept my coach air.

Nick-

P.S. Here is some specs. on the standard auto type compressors too

A6 Compressor
Quality, capacity, and reliability:
 Six cylinder axial configuration
Bore: 38.1MM (1.5in.)
Stroke: 30.2mm (1.2in.)
Displacement: 207 cc (12.6 cu. in.)
Refrigerant: R-134a
Oil charge: 10 oz. Polyalkyleneglycol oil (R134a)
Maximum speed: 6500 RPM continuous, 7500 RPM intermittent
Clutch coil: 12 Volt DC, or 24 Volt DC
 
 

 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 03:57:43 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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FloridaCliff
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2006, 04:30:31 PM »

Ok,  Let me expand on Nicks auto compressors running at 7500 rpm problem.

Would it be possible to run a d/c motor using a properly set up pully ratio between the compressor and the motor to run said compressor at or near the 7500 rpm.?

Could you run that motor off of a 50DN?  Or what size motor and how much d/c would it consume.

I have a ford compressor set up as a vacuum pump runnning on a a/c motor, so could the reverse be done with a d/c? (using a d/c motor to run the compressor)

Throwing out ideas and looking for replies Tongue

Cliff
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2006, 07:28:35 PM »

What about using an AC motor with an inverter?  I have no idea which motor design (AC or DC) is more efficient, but an inverter would solve the problem of looking for an appropriate DC motor.   Continuous duty large DC motors are expensive too.
There's an AC motor for any application you can dream up!  Your 50DN would easily handle the motor demands...and the condensor and evap motors too.    I garuntee!
This concept would make a nice dash air system.   I'm not familiar with your GM front, but an MCI has a good bit of space under the driver for such a compressor arrangement.   The optimal RPM could be arranged with drive ratios.  An electric motor will operate a lot more load than gasoline engine....or to put it differently, a 1 HP AC electric motor would do the work of a 5 HP gasoline engine....or proximal thereof.  Being a non-engineer sort, my approach to such things is the famous "bench test demo!"   Try it and see what works.  You can tell if the motor is doing the job by  amp draw.   I'd guess that most auto AC compressors will function quite well at 3 K RPM.   Even though the auto compressor maxes at 7500, they wouldn't live long at that RPM...I wouldn't think?   They normally operate between 800 and and about 4K. 
If you want multiple units to cool the whole bus, I'd just create "modules" that operated independently.   Some redunduncy then.  You're getting back to running the rooftops which you already could do.   One rooftop would work from an inverter.
Hope someone tries this.  This would make a dash air sooo easy to install.
Cheers, JR
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 07:33:54 PM by NJT5047 » Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2006, 07:42:49 PM »

Hi JR,

A auto compressor normally robs you of 15 hp from your engine. That would be a very big AC motor to turn it. Huh!

I guss we are just trying to reinvent the wheel?

Nick-
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2006, 08:06:14 PM »

............And our bus engines turn on average at 2400 rpm. this means the small compressors would only be able to put out 1/3 of the cooling that they can produce. Unless someone has an idea on how to spin themfaster on a bus engine??? Let me know! .......

Thanks for bringing up the rpm/ capacity point.

You could belt from the crank shaft pulley to a smaller dia pulley on a jack shaft. Then have a large pulley on the jack shaft belt driving the compressor. (The the belts & pulleys would need to be sized properly for it to last). I like the idea of an over the road A/C that uses an engine driven compressor for additional cooling of the front of the bus while driving.

Most people don't realize that an auto A/C is 3+ tons capacity. My 3 ton home unit pulls 26 amps at 220 volts, so wouldn't that be 475amps at 12 volts or 238 at 24volts. Then you have to add in the efficency losses. The electric power has to come from some where. The advantage of all electric A/C is that you can run it off the genset & leave the main motor alone to push the coach up the mountain.

BTW, I like trying to reinvent the wheel, sometimes you get lucky, but mostly you learn why it is the way that it is.
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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2006, 10:14:05 PM »

To talk a little more on car type A/C compressors.  The Sanden SD7H15 7 cylinder compressor is rated at these figures- 1,000rpm-2.5hp and 10,000btu; 2,000rpm- 4.5hp and 18,000btu; 3,000rpm- 6.5hp and 23,000btu; 4,000rpm- 8hp and 27,000btu.  So you can see that the new compressors are not using the excessive horsepower of compressors of yesteryear.  If you used two of these compressors  running at 2 to 1 speed with the engine, it would work well.  For instance, if you were cruising at 1,500rpm on the engine, the compressors would be turning 3,000rpm, using 13hp and producing 46,000btu's total.  You can either run two (or more) compressors on the same circut so long as you size the freon lines accordingly.  Trucks have been doing this for years with the normal engine compressor and then an additional small engine driven compressor when stopped with the help of another electric fan condensor for the truck system that is built in the dash.  The reason you can run multiple compressors is because of the reed valves in the compressor will keep the freon running the same direction, or when one is off, it will block the back flow from the other compressor.  Also, remember that car compressors are rated to turn 5,6, 7000rpm, not because that's where they produce their power, but to be able to with stand those times you kick it down into passing gear.  Even though the above Sanden compressor will turn 6,000rpm, you can see that Sanden only rates it for up to 4,000btu since most car compressors are run at nearly 1 to 1.  And with the relatively low hours we put on the systems, car type compressors will give you many years of service.  Then when you do need a new one, it would be much easier than trying to find the big Carrier type compressor on the road.  Personally, I like the idea of two compressors powering two separate systems-one for the front and one for the back.  BUT-we'll do it our way!  Good Luck, TomC
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