Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
July 24, 2014, 03:52:41 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription:  It will not get lost in the mail.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Pictures of the blower and the broken impeller blade from my turbo  (Read 3936 times)
RickB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1047


81 MCI 9 smooth side 8V71 Allison 754




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2010, 06:12:45 PM »

I have really really good news! I pulled the airbox port covers and checked the rings and cylinders and the compression ring looked new! the crosshatching on the cylinder walls was perfect.

I am beginning to believe that 66K is the actual mileage.

So, I got brave took off my gloves and grabbed a pinch of that residue on the blower and it had absolutely no dirt in it. It is just cooked oil. The more that I looked at it the more clear it became that the blower seals failed badly spilling oil onto the rotor vanes and then was deposited UP on the manifold cover. That's why the tube from the turbo to the blower was clean. There was no metal or cracked rings in any of the airbox port covers.

I am not out of the woods completely yet because the blower needs rebuilding and the turbo compressor blade is still unaccounted for but I have high hopes for the bottom end of the motor and I expect to have it running next week. I am keeping my eye on ebay for one of those awesome deals on reliabilt or new turbo's and blowers but if not my mechanic said he can do the compressor for around $400 and I will probably do the blower myself if I can find the time!
I'm feeling alot better than the last post I can assure you of that!

Don, I am so grateful that you took the time to help me out and by the looks of the pictures I thought that it was dirt too but a tech guy from Rotella today reminded me that many things cause sludge and that I wouldn't really know until I grabbed some of it between my fingers and rubbed it around.

I am going to see if I can get enough oil out of the pan for an oil analysis just to be sure. You can bet your bottom dollar I am gonna be curious as to the silica ppm!!!

Grateful for all the input,
Rick
Logged

I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.
Zeroclearance
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 518





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2010, 06:35:17 PM »

Rick,  I asked about the mileage because the turbocharger has been rode hard!!   I was trying to get the facts before I told you that it looks dusted.   Don came out and told you what I was seeing on the compressor wheel.   Yes, there are worse cases out there.   

You have wrote a couple of times about finding the compressor wheel blade in your oil pan.   There is really no chance of it getting there.   The more likely path is thru the blower and into the combustion chamber and out one cylinder, hopefully it passes thru your exhaust valves.     But as it is in a molten blog by now it would have now made contact with some of the blade tips on your turbine wheel.  Sean posted pictures of his turbine wheel.   It's hard to say how bad it is...

Dusting a engine usually wipes out the ringset.   It will be very polished.   Looking at the "X" hatch won't give you the "true" condition..

You might really consider pulling off one head, and pulling one hole down and looking at the ring pack.   YEARS ago I would send the ringset to Clevite/Perfect Circle warranty department and they would give me there opinion...   You could ring the pistons and install new liners if the pistons were up to spec.   I''m not trying to spend your money for you but the dirt and debris will take it's toll on the ringset..   When it comes to 2 cycle engines there are better people out that can offer you there advice.   

How does the exhaust manifolds look??   I am asking that to see if the oil consumption is up there..    You don't want to be checking your fuel gauge and filling the engine with oil every 500 miles.
Logged
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12061




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2010, 06:46:00 PM »

Rick, can you post the number on the blower the 8V92 uses 3 different blowers and they like the high capacity blower or as some say the 100% blower and I would upgrade to a TV 8511 turbo. 
I would exchange the blower if it were me
Check the rack 8v92's are not like the old 71 series the rack will move with the injectors stuck.
I happy for you now I need your zip code for a shipping quote.  



good luck and keep smiling
Logged

Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
RickB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1047


81 MCI 9 smooth side 8V71 Allison 754




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2010, 07:23:01 PM »

Clifford,

The stamp mark on the blower was kind of hard to read buf it is the same number as the stamped number on the blower intake is # 8924250. I will check into the turbo upgrade. It seems reasonable to pay a little more and exchange the blower like you said so I will heed your advice. My zip is 55109

Zero clearance,

I have to totally go with you on the turbo because they are more of a "science" than my mind is capable of understanding deeply and I certainly see you know these things like the back of your hand. I am hoping that the event that caused that turbo to become damaged was exactly like you described with as little damage as possible. In answer to your question, the exhaust side of the turbo is black but there doesn''t seem to be alot of unburned fuel or oil there.

The exhaust manifold looked really good black, sooty but not oily at all as well. The rings and the cylinders looked really great, the line on the middle of the compression ring was visible from a foot and a half away from the motor.I have an awesome running 8V71 that doesn't look as good as this did. Very little build up in the airbox port caps and virtually no oil in the exhaust port overall.

I an fully prepared to be wrong on this but my discussion with the Rotella rep today really made me think about the various causes of sludge and the varied appearance of sludge. He made it clear to me that the appearance of dirt in the pictures (I emailed the pictures to him of the blower) was not proof that it was a dirt/oil mixture. Regardless, my mechanic will be getting it at his shop in a day or two so he can look at it. He understands we travel long distances in this bus and that we are far more vulnerable in a breakdown situation than a local driver working for a company with tow trucks and a service dept. I have to trust that he is as good as he has proven himself to be in my experiences with him working on my current motor. He was the one that stressed the appearance of the cylinders and rings to me as being more important in the scheme of things than the blower or turbo.

Well, we shall see fellas but I have a good feeling about this.... That's probably just my fear of a rebuild and the$ it will cost if I have to bite the bullet. My mechanic said around 8K to do the inframe, heads, blower and turbo.

I was fine after wifey brought out the smelling salts... LOL

Once again thanks for the imput and please keep it coming, I really do appreciate the combined experience of this board alot!

Rick
Logged

I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.
RickB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1047


81 MCI 9 smooth side 8V71 Allison 754




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 07:36:05 PM »

Zeroclearance,

I know you and Don know a beat to death turbo when you see one so I am assuming that this is one beat turbo but why does this thing spin like a new one? Have you ever encountered one that looked like this and would still spin perfectly? I checked the exhaust and compressor side for marks on the housing and there was nothing up there that my untrained eye could see.

Honestly, the thing spins without any wobble and almost inperceptable end play.

Is it just that my idea of great spinning doesn't match the tight tolerances these high rpm monsters need to do there job?

Zero, I think I speak for most of the board when I say we have all heard the backyard assumptions of how many rpm's these things actually spin at so what do they really spin at in a 475 HP 8V92?

Thanks for your help,

Rick
Logged

I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.
Zeroclearance
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 518





Ignore
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2010, 11:46:36 PM »

Rick,  it would be foolish for me to condemn your entire turbocharger.   However,  at the very least you need a compressor wheel and a rebuild.   I would also strongly lean in favor of FOD blade tip damage on the turbine side>blade tips.    When you add those components up you are going to be quickly at around $500 in parts plus the rebuild cost.   Without removing the turbine housing it is very hard to inspect the blade tips for erosion.   

Clifford has a excellent suggestion to upgrading to the TV85 series turbo.   There are some hybrid "hot rod" turbo combinations that have been built to speed up the shaft speed and thus create more boost "sooner" vs later...

If one "Google" compressor wheel maps> you can quickly see the RPM range that many of these turbochargers will spin.   If you drive a Cummin's pickup the larger hybrid turbochargers will spin up to 95,000 RPM's..    The turbochargers that I make my "living" on will spin up to 185,000 to 190,000 RPM in a twin turbo application.   At idle a TV8101 will turning 9500RPM's and 15K on high idle..    There is some good data coming out from the new engine manufacturers that are running variable vane turbochargers.   The turbochargers have speed sensors that will give you data in real time.     The biggest fear for a turbocharger manufacture or builder is having your customer going over the mountain pass at full boost.   FYI many hybrid turbochargers built for auto racing have "used" the larger two cycle compressor wheels...
Logged
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12061




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2010, 05:08:23 AM »

That is not the blower # Rick 


good luck
Logged

Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
robertglines1
steam nut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3969





Ignore
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2010, 05:29:56 AM »

looking at picture and edges of break...I would consider a mechanical hit rather than metal fatique ....the destorted blade along with the broken blade.....also seems to be old break,maybe even run like that for a long time? I'm ashamed to tell how I know this but lets just say oop's..I"m sure I'm wrong in a perfect world..I have no expertise in area..possible?
Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
RickB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1047


81 MCI 9 smooth side 8V71 Allison 754




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2010, 07:09:30 AM »

Clifford,

The blower assembly part# is R8923954

I'll try to make a call today to see if that is a 100% bypass blower.

Robert,

I'm not sure how it broke or when it broke but it is most seriously broke.LOL!


Thanks,

Rick
Logged

I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!