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Author Topic: Isle width question?  (Read 4434 times)
bryanhes
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« on: January 10, 2010, 05:58:13 PM »

I have spent much of my weekend modifying or changing the drawings of my bus. I like an open feel to the interior but am having a little difficulty with isle width in regards to my dining booth and counter.

My question: Is there a minimum standard width in an isle? I was at a Monaco dealer several months ago and he mentioned 26". I want it as open and as wide as possible for moving around but some things would have to be changed. At this point I have 21" between my booth and kitchen counter which is not enough for me. So I will be making some changes.

Any codes?

Thanks,
Bryan
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John316
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 06:06:45 PM »

Ours is 3 feet wide. Our old couches allowed a 2 foot walkway, which was too small. The 3 feet is a good width.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 06:07:46 PM »

My clearance from dinette to counter top is about 26, an arbitrary number that felt comfortable for my behind.  Do what feels right to you, no codes I've ever heard mentioned here.

David
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bryanhes
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 06:18:41 PM »

I liked the idea of having a bit of an "L" or "U" shaped counter but with the placement of the booth it hinders that. The only real choice I see is to make my counter more straight and that would give me 35" vs. 21". You can see the interior in the sketchup drawing I posted earlier today. Some things are a little tougher than others to put together the way you want with the space you have  Roll Eyes

At least I have all this cold weather to keep me inside to play with it  Grin

Bryan
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Fred Mc
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 06:34:56 PM »

After 20 years of having a booth we changed to a small table and two chairs. What a difference. So much room now. The booth was uncomfortable and took up so much space. Other than that it was perfect.

Fred Mc.
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 06:37:35 PM »

Marathon does a floor plan I REALLY like with a L shaped dinette. They mount the table top on a slide that will also turn.

So that when you are not occupying the booth, the table pushes in towards the seats and gives a ton of aisle and kitchen space, and when you are eating the table moves to give you space.

The point is that mounting the table surface on a slide and turntable gives you the best of both worlds. I looked underneath and they use a simple hand screw to lock it down in whatever the desired position.

I looked at it REAL close, and I can draw you a sketch if you would like.

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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 06:47:21 PM »

Fred,

I originally had a bar with an overhang and two chairs. But with a 14 & 12 year old still at home I thought the booth would be more advantageous. I also like having the booth for when you want a place to enjoy a cup of coffee with friends Grin The table and two chairs would be fine if it were just the wife and I but kids can get messy to and I have younger nephews I would not dare let eat on the sofa  Roll Eyes

Richard,

Is it on a website?

Thanks,

Bryan
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TomC
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 06:59:54 PM »

102" wide bus. 2.25" insulation with 1/4" plywood over= 97" interior width. Minus 24" kitchen counter top width, minus 42" wide dinette=31" space between which is enough for two people to pass.  Good luck, TomC
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2010, 07:03:20 PM »

On seated coaches the law is 26" isle. But it's your coach now, do it yer way!
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2010, 07:33:55 PM »

just remember to take in consideration the refer measurements, so you wnat have to much trouble if you have to replace it.
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cody
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2010, 07:57:02 PM »

Mostly we went with a 42 inch booth that becomes a wide single bed, the seats are attached to a 36 inch pedestal that serves as storage and also has a nightlight under it that lights up the floor, also wired for internet and outlets, it gives us a 36 inch isle that can be wider if needed, you flip the table, pull a pin and the seats swing to the side allowing the refrigerator to move past it if needed.
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bryanhes
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2010, 08:08:20 PM »

Cody,

Do you have a raised roof? It may be just the angle of the picture but it looks taller than normal.

Bryan
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bryanhes
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2010, 08:13:11 PM »

Anyone else have any pictures they want to share of dining and counter?  Grin

Thanks,
Bryan
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cody
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2010, 08:25:48 PM »

No raised roof, just the way the picture worked out I guess, we have about a 75 inch ceiling height. A couple of pics for ideas.
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 08:26:40 PM »

On seated coaches the law is 26" isle. But it's your coach now, do it yer way!

26" really?  For my first real trip in the bus I kept two of the original bus seats up front side by side.  That aisle sure felt narrow!  The second trip I removed the bus seat on one side and installed a captain's chair.  Much nicer with more room now.

I lost one seat, but there is still seating for 10 plus the driver.  If there are 8 or 9 people are all sitting up front it gets pretty tight.  Usually a few are sleeping in bunks so it isn't as bad.
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bryanhes
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 08:39:31 PM »

Thanks Cody,

Looks nice  Grin

Bryan
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cody
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 08:47:52 PM »

Just a couple of ideas, both are 8ft.
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bryanhes
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2010, 09:36:49 PM »

I had mine at 8' as well. I am moving things around along with the fridge. And going back to a center walk thru bathroom.

Thanks again,
Bryan
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2010, 05:44:47 AM »

old school tape floor layout and walk around,or make cardboard boxes the size of your main features and move them around til you get what you want. Remember height requirements for showers will limit placement of shower...If your big like me booth space is a problem,can't suck gut in enough..great for small kids though...FYI....what ever do it your way....Ideas go to prevost stuff and look at coaches for sale.some real neat idea's there.
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Tom Y
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 06:09:24 AM »

Bryan, Keep in mind that more width may be needed at shoulder height. I have been in a few different company built conversions. The smallest I saw was a 24 inch walk way, and it felt fine to me. I can measure my bedroom door if intrested, but I think 26 inch.  Tom Y
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2010, 06:12:15 AM »

I used anangled kitchen cabinet. I am building pullout trays into the end tables and table between recliners. We havw a formal dining room, and breakfast at home that we don't use now.



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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 07:06:14 AM »

Bryan, Ours is setup more like a SS. But this is what we wanted. The smallest distance between the counter and the bath wall is 27 inches wide and the bedroom doors are 24.5 inches wide. Tom
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2010, 07:22:20 AM »

Any codes?


Yes.  NFPA 1192 provides specific minimums for emergency egress purposes.  Any aisle or passage leading to an exit (so this includes the main aisle, since it is the path to the exits from almost anywhere in the coach) must be a minimum of 13" at its narrowest point.  Also, the exit door itself must be a minimum of 18" wide.  Lastly, an exit that is not a door must be able to pass 'an ellipsoid generated by rotating about its minor axis an ellipse having a major axis of 24" and a minor axis of 17"', which would really dictate that, in practice, most aisles should be a minimum of 17" wide.

I think you will find all these code-mandated minima to be uncomfortably narrow, so if you make your aisles wide enough for normal people to be comfortable walking through the coach, you will be well within the code.

FWIW, 24" is generally considered the minimum width of a doorway to be comfortable.  For aisles past counters, furniture, etc. you will want at least 24" of shoulder room, but below perhaps waist height you can get away with less, possibly as little as 17", although code allows you to go down to 13" as per above.

HTH,

-Sean
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2010, 07:36:34 AM »

Eric, that is beautiful cabinet work on your Eagle and I have question about the windows how are going to cornice the windows with them being so low and close to the coach are you going to cornice the windows ? 




good luck
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2010, 07:39:24 AM »

Eric,

The cabinetry looks great. Did you build all of it? I like the layout. That is similar to what I have been thinking about.

Thanks,
Bryan
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2010, 07:40:02 AM »

On seated coaches the law is 26" isle.


Did you mean to write 16"?  Most MCI's have a 14" aisle; the federal standard for schoolies is 12", and I will bet if you go into your Setra and measure between two adjacent armrest pivots it's 16" or less.  Shoulder room, of course, will be more, but I'd be surprised if it's even 26" at shoulder height for shorter adults.

That, of course, all applies to standard seated coaches, which must comply with FMVSS 217 (exit requirements for coaches).  FMVSS-217 uses a 13" ellipsoid, even smaller than the one that I mentioned above for NFPA-1192 (here's the test procedure: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Vehicle%20Safety/Test%20Procedures/Associated%20Files/TP-217-TB-00.pdf).  Once you start talking about ADA-compliant (wheelchair-capable) coaches, the applicable standards are FMVSS 403 & 404 and these dictate much wider aisles to accommodate the wheelchairs.  Low-floor transits, for example, must comply with these new (effective 2004) standards.  

-Sean
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 08:35:22 AM by Sean » Logged

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bryanhes
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2010, 07:47:32 AM »

Sean,

For some reason I knew you would be "da man" to produce codes  Shocked  Grin

I do not see how someone could live with 13". I am 5'10" and 170lb. Heck I would feel confined with that.

Thanks,
Bryan
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2010, 07:56:02 AM »

I do not see how someone could live with 13". I am 5'10" and 170lb. Heck I would feel confined with that.


As I said, most would find the code minimum to be uncomfortably narrow.

Note, BTW, the the FMVSS-217 emergency exit standards mean that you'd possibly have to squeeze through a hatch just 13"x17" (17"x24" for RV's per ANSI-1192), and I suspect there are quite a few adults who could not do that. We put a boat hatch in our roof, not only for emergencies but also to access our roof-top deck.  We picked the smallest size that seemed comfortable to us, and that was 19"x19"; even then, we've had guests look up at it and decide it was too skinny for them to attempt.  The moral of this story, I guess, is that if you are a large person, don't travel by bus, because the emergency exits may be a tight squeeze Smiley

-Sean
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cody
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2010, 08:21:59 AM »

Thar was something I had been puzzling over, how they get all those ellipsoids in the buses.
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2010, 10:33:45 AM »

Sean,
Thank you for catching that! Yes I meant 16" which is what Setra told us when we asked why the isles seemed so narrow. But in the model Setra we were asking about it has a drop ilse floor. So the seats hit higher up on the body and seem narrower than it really is. (compared to other buses like MCI)
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 03:02:54 PM »

Bryan,

This is the best pic I could find. It is shown with the table pushed into the bench for maximum clearance.

http://www.philcooper.com/gallery/dat-00/IMG_0496_2_40
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« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2010, 05:05:12 PM »

I have spent much of my weekend modifying or changing the drawings of my bus. I like an open feel to the interior but am having a little difficulty with isle width in regards to my dining booth and counter.

An "open" feel is based on the top half of any enclosed space.  This is why so many apartments and condos are designed with a big opening between kitchen and living room.  Your eyeline is up near the ceiling, not down where the chairs and table are, so that 26" will work for you, especially if you have a lot of windows to let in outside light.

Visitors to my coach comment on how open it seems, even though the luggage racks are still in place and the aisle through the front room is only about 24" wide, because I have left all of the original windows -- light comes in from every direction, and with the drapes open, you can see the landscape.

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bryanhes
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« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2010, 07:40:11 PM »

Richard,

Thanks for the photo! Thats a good look as well. So many choices just one bus  Shocked Grin

Bryan

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« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2010, 07:47:41 PM »

This is what we have Bryan , If I one complaint it's the the china cab leading to the hall .
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bryanhes
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« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2010, 07:56:55 AM »

Andy,

You are brave having the China cabinet in there  Grin No sudden stops I guess, lol

Bryan
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« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2010, 01:15:59 PM »

Hey Bryan , ya I know it wasn't my design, Eileen has a way of securing the dishes . Roll Eyes Pillows lol and we don't own any china  Grin
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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2010, 02:00:45 PM »

Andy, Very nice.  Is the wood curly maple?  Tom Y
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2010, 04:30:58 PM »

Thanks Tom y for the nice comment. It is Birch  done by the PO
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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2010, 08:32:57 AM »

The Isle in the hallway is 24", which is enough-even though I'm 6'3" and over 300lbs.  Around the bed is 18" which is enough since that is just down at knee level.  Just remember, every inch you can use is gold.  Good Luck, TomC
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