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Author Topic: Costs of employing professional bus drivers  (Read 4477 times)
gus
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2010, 06:12:20 PM »

Why do we always seem to think it necessary to include little digs on Obama, China, Reid and others. Seems there are never comments any about our boy Bush who got us into this mess in the first place. Wonder why that is, could there actually be "Fox" fair and balanced in play here?

We really don't need this cheap stuff.
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PD4107-152
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 08:30:59 PM »

Quote from: gus
Why do we always seem to think it necessary to include little digs on Obama, China, Reid and others. Seems there are never comments any about our boy Bush who got us into this mess in the first place. Wonder why that is, could there actually be "Fox" fair and balanced in play here?

We really don't need this cheap stuff.

Gus,
The Obama remark was a JOKE and I even attempted to make note of it. The China remark was a serious effort to make my point to Mr. Elfert that he was missing some "costs" and you don't just order imported drivers like you do online products!
Reid I didn't mention, nor did I see where anyone else did.
And if dumb-@$# "Dubya" was still in office I'd still be making jokes at him too! (by the way he nor any one single other person "get us into this mess!" It goes back way farther than "Dubya" and it involves way more than one person & "big business" getting us in this mess!)

So grow up and get over it! Sheesh man have a sense of humor.
But since you and Obama do have it all figured out could you enlighten the rest of us? Or at least prove to us he is who he really says he is and that he is really a US citizen and legally eligible to be US PRESIDENT! After all what is he hiding his birth certificate for?

And for all others besides Gus I apologize for even stooping to answer too him and his political ranting!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2010, 08:41:28 PM »

Get a life Gus,I never watched FOX in my life till you started in on Fox news now I watch it every day no more Katie for me LOL

good luck
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Life is short drink the good wine first
cody
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2010, 08:44:01 PM »

The answer as to who brought this economy to it's knees is easy, we all did, does anyone remember back in the early 60's? when your parents wanted a tv, what did they do, did they whip out that little piece of plastic? or did they save up.  How many had more than one car, how many needed more than one job?  We all brought this on, each one of us did when we forgot how to make that one easy payment to buy something and found out how easily it was to buy on credit, hang the interest, it's just a small thing, right? and how much did that interest cost at the end of the year.  Did you ever hear your grandfather say he wanted your father to have a better and easier life than he did? did anyones father say they wanted your life to be better than theirs were? The only problem with that idea is we forgot the responsibility that goes with it.  We were asked to do a fundraiser this coming saturday for a family that lost everything in a fire last night, we'll provide the music and are proud to be able to do something to help them but it brings to mind how close many of us are to feeding the wolf at the door.
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John316
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2010, 08:57:24 PM »

Cody, good for you to provide the music at the fundraiser. You make it thump!!!

Back to the OP. There is tremendous overhead in business, like BK said. When I am looking at a job, I try to add in a significant bit of extra, simply because of other expenses. They expenses always go up, not down.

God bless,

John
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 09:36:37 PM by John316 » Logged

MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
RJ
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2010, 09:11:46 PM »

Back in the early days when I was first in the industry, if a fellow started a charter bus outfit, and could do the majority of his own preventative maintenance, he'd make some money.  Wouldn't get rich, but could keep a roof over his head, groceries on the table, and a little extra to play with.

When he got busy enough to add a second coach, plus a driver, he'd barely break even.

Adding a third coach would bring him back into the black, somewhat

The fourth coach would again create very thin margins - a blown engine could be fatal.

But interestingly, when the fifth coach was added, and following good fiscal policy, the company would be profitable.  Often the fifth coach was actually the back-up, with the other four rolling constantly.  Subsequent fleet additions, in the same proportions (4:1 or 5:1) kept everyone getting a paycheck.

Not sure if that still holds today, with the sophistication and complexity of the modern intercity coach compared to the (relatively) simple and virtually bullet-proof GMCs of the day.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2010, 09:35:39 PM »

BK, are you listening to RJ's post? Wink

Great post, RJ. Thanks a lot.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2010, 10:12:19 PM »

BK, are you listening to RJ's post? Wink
Great post, RJ. Thanks a lot.
God bless,
John

Yeah, and I'm try'n to learn how to "break even" let alone make any profit! Grin  (ya know with it being to much to charge $300 a day fer a driver and all Wink)
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2010, 11:08:52 PM »

Proably no use to you but Arrow leases their coaches for 500.00 a day for a 44 passenger coach with a 1.38 per mile for insurance and fuel plus if Arrow furnshes the driver it is 300.00 a day for him or her plus expenses.  

It seems that Arrow is making a decent profit on that driver.  What does a driver get, maybe $150 a day?  Arrow has overhead, but the daily and per mile costs help cover that too.

Does it really matter how much Arrow charges for a driver when providing your own driver is an option? If you can easily find an an available qualified driver for a cheaper price (including whatever value you place on your extra time and effort), then you have arrived at your actual market price based on supply and demand.
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cody
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2010, 07:23:08 AM »

John, we're soft touches for burnouts, especially when small children are involved, I can't remember ever turning down a request for a music fund raiser, we've been doing this several times a year for a long time, it's an easy, fun evening and makes me feel good.  This one is especially appropriate for the thread, lol the guy is a school bus driver for the local school district.
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BG6
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2010, 10:19:49 AM »

I understand there are plenty of other expenses in employing anyone, but something would seem to be wrong if if additional payroll costs added up to 100% of the driver's pay.  Arrow certainly has other overhead, but Arrow is already getting $800 a day before the bus is driven anywhere.

You're looking at it like a hobbyist.  You bought a coach which was no longer in service, you do your work instead of paying for a shop full of every tool that you might need and enough mechanics to handle most emergencies, and you don't have the massive amount of government paperwork to deal with.

Consider:

1)  They can't send out a coach which doesn't exist.  Someone had to build it.  Someone had to pay for it being built.  Someone has to make sure it's ready for the trip.  Someone has to pay the insurance.  Someone has to pay for the property taxes, the weight fees, the registration, the permits to operate in various towns, etc.

2)  All of those costs must be paid whether the coach turns a wheel or not, just to have it available when needed.

3)  If those costs average out to, say, $1000 per week over the coach's service life, that means that the coach MUST run two days each week to break even (no profit and NONE of the other overhead covered).  Just so you know, an intercity coach costs at least a QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS, twice what a top-of-the-line Freightliner tractor costs, and the payment on that Freightliner is FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS PER WEEK, so that $1000 may be a low guess -- and we're already talking about running the coach nearly 1/3 of the time just to cover the cost of the thing existing -- add fuel, tolls.etc, and you are up to another $1000, so that means it needs to run 4 days out of each 7, just to pay the expenses.  And the coach is good for maybe 10 years, so about the time you get one paid off, you're ordering the replacement, and hoping to find someone who will buy the expended one -- either a church, local government, B (or C) level operator, or a busnut who wants to convert into a motor home or an entertainer.  Something like one coach in ten is SCRAPPED because it's worth more as parts and shredded metal.

4)  In order to have a reasonable chance to actually have a coach available when someone wants one, they have to have several in reserve, close enough to bring into town -- they can't just call up the factory and say "I'll take another one on Wednesday,"  If the needed coach is at a different yard, it has to be brought into town (and the transfer costs also come out of that $500).  If the coach is too far away, they may find themselves actually losing money on a trip being made for a customer that they don't dare say "sorry" to!

When you look at ONE coach and ONE driver for ONE day, it looks like the company is getting rich.  If you look at the big picture, though, you see that the costs are staggering, and the profits not all that great.  That's why we don't all own bus companies.

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busshawg
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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2010, 10:43:43 AM »

Hey Cody and RJ, great posts. It is so true about the ratio of units to profit , break even and loose money. In todays standard 800 bucks a day seems reasonable to me though. Try to keep your expenses down and put an older bus in service that one can actually afford ,and everyone will want to ride the new shiny one. It's all relavant.

Grant
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Have Fun!!
Grant
RJ
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2010, 11:37:57 AM »

BG6

Great expansion on the simple explanation I posted earlier, with one exception:

The average selling prices of a new MCI model J4500, their best seller, is $490,000 - 520,000.  Got that info direct from Marshall Deems, Used Coach Sales Manager at MCI's CA facility.

So an operator REALLY has to run the wheels off the thing in order to just make the monthly strokes!!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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gus
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2010, 07:38:27 PM »

BK,

You make a pretty good case and then go into the same old rant about Obama's birth certificate. This is the same garbage almost word for word from Fox World and their like. I have a hard time believing these digs are jokes.

I'm pretty sure I have grown up by now.

It is amusing that when I object to the constant right wing ranting on this forum I'm accused of "ranting"??
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PD4107-152
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2010, 11:38:47 PM »

In my opinion, when anyone takes cheap shots about politics (or any controversial subject) in a serious thread, you're working to derail the thread. If it's deliberate, then it's a conscious attack on either the subject or the writer. If it's not deliberate, then it's being disrespectful. Either way, it's not nice and not helpful.

Unless you have more to say on the original subject, I'd suggest not saying anything at all. This isn't the off-topic section, after all.
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