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Author Topic: Scenicruiser Repower with Cummins ISL  (Read 4177 times)
scenicruiser997
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« on: January 21, 2010, 09:35:32 AM »

Well, how come when you have time to work on the bus you have no money, but when you have the money you never have the time.  I recently bought a PD-4501 #997 Third from the last built, seated bus that had been setting in a barn for the last 25 years with no motor or transmission.  I also have #372 that I bought a two years ago that was stripped shell but had a running 8V71 with a 4 speed splicer.   You might have seen it on youtube.  After much thought about just jerking the 8V71 out of #372, I ran across this local C-list ad.
 
 http://tulsa.craigslist.org/rvs/1559363251.html

complete drivetrain out of a 2002 American Eagle Coach. This includes a 400 horsepower Cummins ISL engine, Allison automatic transmission and Eaton rearend (Air Ride). All are still mounted to the frame rails and were removed as an assembly. All computer accessories and wiring are intact and go with it. This drive train had approximately 60k miles when the interior of the Coach was burnt, none of the drivetrain was touched.
Bad thing is the guy wants $4500.00  Reading over older post this would seem to be a good package for the old cruiser.  But as I stated earlier, with no extra business right now, means I have to cut all spending to help keep my business going.   So if any one else out there whats to take a shot at this go for it, or you could just donate a package engine and transmission for the cause of helping to put one more seated scenicruiser back on the road. Thanks for letting me vent.
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Tom Y
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 10:05:22 AM »

997, Thanks for the link. I just got off the phone with him. Hoping to get some pics from him. I will post when I get them. The down side only 8.9 liter.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 10:14:13 AM »

Thats is a India or China built Cummins 



good luck
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Tom Y
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 10:27:25 AM »

India or China? That would be BAD.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
scenicruiser997
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 11:47:20 AM »

WOW! Did not know that LUVRBUS.   Maybe back to the drawing board looking for a M11 or L10
I see there is a guy in ALTAMONT, NY selling 3  CUMMINS M11 ENGINES WITH ALLISON HT 740RS TRANSMISSIONS, 2  CUMMINS L10 ENGINES ALLISON HT 740RS TRANSMISSSIONS for $2000.00 a piece on Ebay.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 11:50:09 AM by scenicruiser997 » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 12:12:57 PM »

I don't quite know how Luvrbus knows that the engine is built outside of U.S-what's the difference?  It is built to Cummins specs.  The ISL is a great choice for bus conversion-it is about 500lb lighter then the 8V-71 and can use the smaller (read cheaper) 3000 Series Allison.  You're not going to find a cheaper deal for a complete engine/transmission-especially if it has all the electronics.  Good Luck, TomC
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luvrbus
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 01:42:54 PM »

TomC it pretty easy if you read the tag on the block there is a 2001 Fleetwood Eagle for sale in my neighbor hood for sale with that engine. FWIW all the 8.3 and 8.9 were built in India or China

good luck
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 01:47:10 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Len Silva
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 02:36:21 PM »

You know, the rear axle is probably 102", might complicate a swap.
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 04:21:50 PM »

I wouldn't trust anything built in India or China even if it had a Cummins nameplate on it. They may have been built to specs on the insdie, but I'll bet the quality of materials and workmanship looks terrible. The quality of steel is not anywhere near ours, they don't have the high quality of raw materials.

IMHO

Paul
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 04:34:38 PM »

It is becoming a global economy...kinda hard to stay away from import stuff.
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Len Silva
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 07:00:40 AM »

I would not yet trust a lot of products from China, but keep your eye on them.

The first Toyotas and Datsuns imported in the late sixties were junk, now they compete for best in the world.  The first Korean imports were also junk, but more highly regarded every day.

I just read where more cars were sold in China last year than in the U.S..

Communist China is well on the way to a world takeover and they won't be using guns to do it.  Much of their takeover will be highly subsidized by American corporations.
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 07:32:34 AM »

I would not yet trust a lot of products from China, but keep your eye on them.

The first Toyotas and Datsuns imported in the late sixties were junk, now they compete for best in the world.  The first Korean imports were also junk, but more highly regarded every day.

Absolutely. I really hate it when people dismiss 'foreign junk' without considering that it was those same prejudices in the past that allowed Western manufacturing to stagnate whilst the 'foreign junk' became the world class products of today.

I happened to see a TV advert just this morning advertising a certain Korean car manufacturer offering 7 year warranties on it's products. Name one Western auto maker that can match that.

Jeremy
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 10:46:11 AM »

Here it is.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 10:56:47 AM »

Sorry about the double pics. I tried to post another but file is to large? The guy bought this for the wheels and tires.  Said width at tires is 96"  Tom Y
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 08:04:58 AM »

Now it looks like the All American Hummer is going to be built by the Chinese Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Company.
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 10:07:59 AM »

You should probably be glad they actually want to buy it legally now, rather than simply producing copies as in the past.





(I do realise these are copies of Hum-Vees rather than Hummers, but you get my point)

Jeremy
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2010, 01:15:54 PM »

Hey 997, just want to add some thoughts.

If you are thinking about an engine conversion you might want to contact Bus Conversion Mag and pick up the 4 issues with my article on the subject.  That will give you a feel for the size of the project and things you should think about.

I don't know what the weight of a Scenicruiser conversion, but it is a big bus and I would think you could hit 36K pretty easy and maybe more.  If that is the case, the ISL would be a bit marginal.  The 400HP sounds good, but the torque is 1200.  Most Eagle folks go to the ISM with the 1550 torque and I doubt they would want to go any smaller.  Several of us went with the Series 60 and are glad that we did.

The package you are looking at is a pretty good price if that is a World (6 speed transmission) - did not take the time to look.  But again, it would not be a world beater on the big hills and you would be working the engine pretty hard under many normal conditions.

You can stick most any engine in that bus. This summer I saw one with a Huge CAT 3408 and 15 speed transmission.  Last year in Quartzsite I saw a beautiful installation with a Series 60.

For my money, you would be much better served to use one of the large four stroke engines.  Lots of folks favor the Series 60s but the CAT and Cummins are fine as well. 

However, if you go this route, you should go with the correct gearing.  I cover that in some detail.  You will want to run those engines at about 1300-1500 RPM at your typical cruise speed.  That dictates a transmission with an overdrive or changing the rear end gears to something like 2.7-2.9 (would require a different truck rear end) if you go with a non-overdrive transmission.

An engine conversion is going to take about the same amount of work regardless of the engine, so you might just as well get the best engine for your application.

Jim

One other quick thought.  I don't think you can put Jakes on the ISL. On the big engines, you will find most of them come equipped that way.  If you ever plan to drive in CO or some other state with big "hills", you should have them.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 01:24:53 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
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scenicruiser997
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2010, 01:56:42 PM »

Jim, Thank you for this good information.  As for the Cat powered Scenic, It belongs to a fellow bus nut here in Tulsa.  When I saw your article come out, I jumped on the phone and called Greg.  He didn't even know that you used a picture of his bus in the article. He was under the bus repairing the transmission that he blew in Kansas on the way back to Tulsa.   Greg wanted me to see if I could get him a copy of your article or an extra copy of the mag.  to show off.  I am trying to twist his arm to join the big group of Scenicruisers this April in Texas for the 2010 Hounds of the Motherroad Get-together in Amarillo, TX. 
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Aaron
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2010, 04:03:19 PM »

Tell Greg that I had a great time chatting with him at Bonneville.  I would have loved to have gotten a ride in that beast.  As I recall, he even had an Eagle part in the shifting mechanism Cheesy

I have the Scenicruiser event on my calendar (4/8-9).  Probably will not be able to make it, but it is sure fun to think about going and hiding in the back corner with my Eagle.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2010, 06:30:10 PM »

One thing to note- the original 8V-71 with 65 injectors puts out 300hp and 800lb/ft torque.  Graduating to the ISL with 400hp and 1200lb/ft torque is 50% more power!  Course, a Series 60 at 515hp and 1650lb/ft torque is much nicer at twice the power.

On a new note-our Freightliner trucks with 2010 engines (with Urea exhaust fluid injection) is available with a DD15 rated at 530hp and 1850lb/ft torque-approved at 80,000lbs for the Allison 4000HS.  That would be a great performer.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2010, 08:28:33 PM »

A friend in FL stripped out the luggage racks & seats out of his Scenicruiser & then weighed it before adding his conversion stuff. The shell weight was 25,000 pounds.

The stock empty weight (with seats) is less than 30,000 pounds.

Less weight per available HP = more fun to drive.  Grin
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