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Author Topic: Check Engine Light location....  (Read 3248 times)
wayneswirld2
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« on: February 19, 2010, 08:10:45 PM »

Hate to beat a dead horse, but here goes.  I've been having a starting problem with my 1988 Gillig Phantom with a Detroit Diesel 6V92T engine.  The more I learn about this thing, the more I'm thinking that my fuel delivery problem is more ELECTRICAL than fuel. 

Can anyone tell me where I might find the check engine light?  And what would be the procedure for finding out what code, or codes, I might have?

Again....it's a 1988 Gillig Phantom 35' transit with a Detroit Diesel 6V92T.  Thanks, y'all....

Wayne
Austin, TX
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 08:53:50 PM »

Wayne -

I've forgotten where the switch was on our Gilligs at the transit property I worked for, but here's a suggestion:  Since Gillig is still around, why not contact them directly and ask?  Here's the contact info for the parts dept, if they can't answer, ask for someone who can:


GILLIG
Parts Department
P.O. Box 3008
Hayward, CA 94540-3008

Phone:  (510) 264-5160
Fax:  (510) 887-0981

Email: parts-sales@gillig.com


FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 10:21:25 PM »

If you are unable to get a list of the DDEC (flashing CE light) codes, I think I have one in my manual that I can email to you, or something. I used mine until the page was very wrinkled.
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JackConrad
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 04:38:51 AM »

Wayne,
    Have determined for sure if it is a DDEC or an MUI engine?  If the problem is electrical, this will make a big difference in diagnosing the problem.  Jack
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 05:18:49 AM »

Good point, Jack. Guess I was getting ahead of myself. Sorry.

Yup, there I am way back there !!
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RTS/Daytona
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 05:37:56 AM »

CEL lights are usually on the dash - usually in the ANNUMCIATOR LIGHT PANEL (Air Pressure/low oil/brakes/etc)

do you have a push button tranny selector - DDEC TEST switches are usually mounted on the front lower face of the shifter box

here are the DDEC code for DDEC-II 
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wayneswirld2
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 06:20:56 AM »

I have no idea how to determine whether I have a MUI or DDEC engine honestly....given my serious lack of knowledge of busses.  Although in my electrical panel above the driver seat there is a DDEC relay?  Might be a DDEC?  THere are two toggle switches that say  "Engine Test" and "Trans Test" on the dash to the right of the speedometer.  Both of those are three position swithes that will toggle up and down, but immediately return to their center positions when you tanke your finger off of them.  I'm going to guess that we're dealing with a DDEC engine set up....and I'm going to guess that is going to make things a little more...interesting...in the diagnosis.

Wayne
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 08:02:27 AM »

Wayne, some folks have touched on this, but DD has a very specific requirement as to how DDEC information is to be displayed.  There will be two pretty good sized lamps in clear view of the driver.  One will be LABELED "CEL" or check engine  and the second will be red and will be labeled in some fashion to indicate that it is STOP engine light.  I can't recall if DD demands it, but there should also be a push button switch right next to the lamps that allows the driver to hold the switch in the depressed position to get the bus off the road if a critical engine event (over temp, low oil pressure, etc) set a code that will shut the engine down right away.

If you don't have those lights you have a mechanical engine. 

I think others have said to look for the engine shut down air solenoid on the governor.  If you have a governor, you have a mechanical engine. 

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2010, 09:42:24 AM »

Talked to Wayne on the phone

He has a DDEC-II  (connectors all on one side)

He has a CEL (check engine lite) and and SEL (stop engine lite) as well as a dianostic switch for both the tranny and the engine

The CEL does not blink twice when the bus is turned on

the cel does not blink any codes (not even the no error code 25)

MOREOVER  there is NO 12 volt POWER to pin A&B - E&F  of the J4 connector - INJECTOR POWER and GROUNDS for the LEFT/RIGHT BANK) (this is main injector power supplied usually via red wire 20 amp circuits - with C/B usually in the battery bay

SEE attached picture

I've sent him the pinout for all the other connectors (my guess is he has no battery or ignition power to the DDEC either - because he gets no CEL on turn on)


IT WOULD HELP IF SOMEONE KNOWS WHERE ON AN 87?? GILLIG THE (MOST LIKELY ) TWO @) AMP FUSES ARE FOR THE LEFT AND RIGHT INJECTOR BANKS

in the past I've always heard that they tend to be near the battery source (like the battery box) - Wayne has looked but does see anything

The 12 volt cutoff switch seems to work cause he hears trhe alarms go on when he turns the 12 volt cutoff switch on
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 09:44:31 AM by RTS/Daytona » Logged

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wayneswirld2
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2010, 10:02:20 AM »

Once again, thanks Pete for all the help this morning.  Now that we've sort of narrowed this down, I'm starting to feel a little better about the purchase! 

For clarification purposes, the bus in s 1988 Gillig Phantom 35' transit with the 6V92T engine.

Wayne
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Jim Shepherd


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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 10:15:18 AM »

Pete, I am a little confused.  I don't know much (anything?) about DDEC II, but on a higher DDEC, I don't think that the CEL and SEL would light if there was not any supply power. 

It sounds like you are saying that the ECM (maybe called ECU on a DDEC II) has power, but the power that supplies the injector is a separate power supply. 

Just trying to understand.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
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RTS/Daytona
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Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 10:24:18 AM »

Jim


The DDEC itself is powered via the IGNITION INPUT - B3 pin on connector J2

and  both banks of Injectors BANKS are usually powered DIRECTLY from the battery via twin 20 amp fuses to pins A&B and E&F of the small J4 center conector

My guess is he is missing BOTH  - 12 volt ign to B3 (no CEL power on diagnostic lite flash) and 12 volt direct from batteries to Injectors
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2010, 10:20:50 PM »

There is a test jack on the coach for plugging in a DDEC test box. It will read out the fault codes.

If you do not have access to the test box, you can short across the ECM ground to the ECM test request pin (at the test jack because that is the easieest place to get to it), then the check engine light will flash the code. (I think you could get the test jack pin configuration from Gillig)

If the check engine light is functional (not burned out), and it does not light or flash when the contacts are shorted, then checking the ECM is a logical next move.
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 08:23:34 AM »

The test jack should be the same as any DDEC II equipped vehicle.  There is a standard so it is easier to work on them.
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RTS/Daytona
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Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 10:55:15 AM »

I already pointed wayne to the test port - he has the old GM OBD-1 style 12 pin - but some of the wires have been pulled out

I sent him the Pin outs for his DDEC-II and can use the "dianostic request / pin E1 to ground" on the DDEC itself and use a test light to monitor the CEL DDDC pin B1

Pete
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