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Author Topic: Dealing with clear coat peel.  (Read 3172 times)
johns4104s
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« on: March 03, 2010, 05:19:40 AM »

I have a 4104 that was painted by starjet (looks very nice) except for  the roof has some of the clear coat peeling. What is the best was to take care of this? Can you sand it?

Thanks

John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 05:42:03 AM »

John, call Dick at Starjet 614-488-6764 he has always tried to tell me his paint jobs have a lifetime warranty check him out and see.
Let us know what he says I am curious to know if he will honor the warranty


good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 06:06:34 AM »

My understanding is that if the clear  coat is peeling it's due to improper installation, letting the colour coat dry too much before the clear is applied.  I think the only way to fix it is to take it off and redo it.  You might be able to just sand off the clear coat and not the colour, but I wouldn't try.  I don't think that scuffing and spraying will fix the improper bond between the colour and the existing clear.

That's just from conversations with painters.  It's one reason I only shoot straight colour, not clear coat systems.  I'm not coordinated enough to figure out all the rules...

Brian
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johns4104s
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 06:43:59 AM »

My MCI 9 has imeron paint, they mixed the clear coat in with the Imeron before they sprayed it.

John
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rip
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 06:51:31 AM »

I am having the same problem.I went to Napa and bought a gallon of clear with hardener.I used 320 grit sandpaper and sanded off the clear being very carefull not to sand the color.I used a Fuji HVLP to spray of the clear.It looks good so far.I was told you can buff out the clear after 48 hrs. but I have not got that far yet. This is my first time doing any sort auto painting,but I have sprayed a lot of cabinets. I know this may be a short time fix,but I plan to repaint the bus in the future.
    Don
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bevans6
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 07:17:16 AM »

Imron is a two part, single stage paint that is well known for being tough and long lasting.  We use it for chassis paint on race cars (if we don't powder coat them), and fleets seem to like it for trucks, tractors, things that take a beating.  It's not a base-coat/clear coat paint, their system is colour, reducer and hardener.  While it's about as tough a paint as you will find, it isn't as glossy and doesn't give you that deep glassy appearance that is why you use base coat/clear coat.

Again, I only know that because I used it a couple of times.  I'm not a painter unless cornered and forced into it!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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bryanhes
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 07:21:50 AM »

Even if you sand into the color you can re-clear it. The only time you will have a problem is if you are sanding a metallic or pearl. Otherwise you can sand the clear down to the color and re-shoot. If done properly it will work fine. Just be careful and not sand through your color. It is a bonding problem but which problem is hard to say. It could peel from improper prep and not removing the contaminants on top of the color to using old products.

Just make sure you wash it down with soap and water after sanding and use a good prep-sol after it has dried before shooting the new to remove any residue or chemical that could be floating around. Also make sure you blow everything off with compressed air after washing so as to not blow any water out of crevices when you start clearing.

bobofthenorth did a small area on his Prevost that was peeling. He said it looks good doing what I suggested and re-cleared it with spray can. Maybe he can post a pic for us to see.

HTH,
Bryan
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Hobie
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 07:32:35 AM »

You said they mixed the clear into the color and now the clear is peeling?   Does that mean all the paint they sprayed is peeling or did they top coat it with a pure clear layer?  

Any peeling paint has to be sanded off.  You can strip it or sand it down to the factory layer.   As stated earlier, it was not installed correctly.   Either too long before clear coating, based not mixed for the clearcoat, or incompadable brands of paint, or the surface not sanded properly before painting.

Clear is used when adding trick candy or pearl effects and to give the paint a 'deep' look.  It is painted in two stages at the same time.  First the color until the vehical is covered solid, then several coats of clear.  The base coat of color is mixed specially for clear coating.  And it cannot be used without the clearcoat.  


Once something is painted you can't add a clearcoat.  It is like a separate paint job and needs to be sanded for the paint to stick.  And if you sand the paint, you will see the sand scratches through the clear.  
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bryanhes
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 07:45:01 AM »

If you do a final sand with 2000 grit before applying the clear you will not see any scratches, you want to work up to that in stages. I have base/clear projects sit for months and then cleared. It was fine. Just don't sand with a 320. A good starting point would probably be about a 600 to take down clear. And not always do you have to remove all of it. Only where it continues to want to peel. You need to feather the edges at where it stops peeling to have a smooth transition between the two. If it is on the roof it will not have to be perfect unless you have low flying planes inspecting your job up there,  Cheesy

Bryan
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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 08:36:06 AM »

Mixing the clear coat with the paint turns the two stage paint into a single stage paint.  The whole idea behind putting the bare paint down then the clear coat over is to protect the actual paint from UV, road grime, chipping, etc.  NEVER let a paint shop try to talk you into mixing the clear coat with the paint-all they're trying to do is to be lazy and get the painting done in one process-rather then painting first, waiting for tack up, then painting the clear over.  Good Luck, TomC
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luvrbus
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 09:05:42 AM »

Here you go John www.willyscustomconcepts.net  Mike Wilson @ 541-915-3866 he will answer all questions for you he does re clear coat all the time and is the best in the paint business he painted my bus 


good luck
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Hobie
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2010, 09:17:17 AM »

If you do a final sand with 2000 grit before applying the clear you will not see any scratches, you want to work up to that in stages. I have base/clear projects sit for months and then cleared. It was fine. Just don't sand with a 320. A good starting point would probably be about a 600 to take down clear. And not always do you have to remove all of it. Only where it continues to want to peel. You need to feather the edges at where it stops peeling to have a smooth transition between the two. If it is on the roof it will not have to be perfect unless you have low flying planes inspecting your job up there,  Cheesy

Bryan

Agreed this will work with 2000 grit.  I'm just old school and would paint and clear at the same time.   Smiley   Saves masking again.     While sanding/feathering/recoating  the defective area works for a repair I'm just concerned that since it peeled there was already an installing problem and you may find more lifting later.   Since you paid for the whole job, then they need to repaint the entire roof. 
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2010, 11:28:51 AM »

My clear coat is also peeling but i don't think it is due to a poor job. It was done in either 83 or 84 so it is about 27 years old and has spent its whole life outside. Smiley  A new paint job is on my wish list but will have to wait for a while.
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johns4104s
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2010, 12:31:48 PM »

Hobbie,

I have a 4104 that was painted by Starjet, this is base coat clear coat, great looking bus except for the clear peeling.

2nd bus is a MCI 9 Imeron with clear coat mixed in before they sprayed it,

3rd a 4104 Imeron painted 48 years ago, IT IS STILL GOOD AND POLISHES UP NICE.

4th 4104 horrible blue color

John

PS Clifford your guy from Starjet said for me to send him a picture, may help>>

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John316
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 02:45:15 PM »


PS Clifford your guy from Starjet said for me to send him a picture, may help>>

John,

We are all waiting with baited breath. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them reads this forum, so it also wouldn't surprise me if they make a fix attempt. I have very high interests in whether he does fix it, or not. I doubt we would ever take our bus back to him to get our paint job fixed, but I will be curious what he tells you. They did a hands down terrible job on our bus. It looks okay from a distance, but up close you can tell it isn't a good job at all. I wish we would have done the work ourselves, and taken it to Willie (Clifford's guy), and had it done right. We are stuck with it now.

For everybody else that is thinking about using Star Jet, I will say that we used them, and they did a terrible job on ours. They did a really nice job on Nick's coach, but I think that was only because he is a mod on the board. For us (the "regular" guy), they did horrible work, and we ended up fixing just about everything that they did. Not to mention the fact that they didn't place the back windows where the drawing called for them (so we are out of that storage space, thanks to Dick not being able to read a drawing).

Okay, sorry for my rant. It just really bugs me when a "reputable" company does shoddy work like that.

But we suffer the consequences for not asking on the board, before we went to them. Another note to self...always check here before doing anything (actually, I don't think I had found this place yet...).

God bless,

John
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