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Author Topic: Dealing with clear coat peel.  (Read 2913 times)
johns4104s
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« on: March 03, 2010, 05:19:40 AM »

I have a 4104 that was painted by starjet (looks very nice) except for  the roof has some of the clear coat peeling. What is the best was to take care of this? Can you sand it?

Thanks

John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 05:42:03 AM »

John, call Dick at Starjet 614-488-6764 he has always tried to tell me his paint jobs have a lifetime warranty check him out and see.
Let us know what he says I am curious to know if he will honor the warranty


good luck
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 06:06:34 AM »

My understanding is that if the clear  coat is peeling it's due to improper installation, letting the colour coat dry too much before the clear is applied.  I think the only way to fix it is to take it off and redo it.  You might be able to just sand off the clear coat and not the colour, but I wouldn't try.  I don't think that scuffing and spraying will fix the improper bond between the colour and the existing clear.

That's just from conversations with painters.  It's one reason I only shoot straight colour, not clear coat systems.  I'm not coordinated enough to figure out all the rules...

Brian
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johns4104s
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 06:43:59 AM »

My MCI 9 has imeron paint, they mixed the clear coat in with the Imeron before they sprayed it.

John
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rip
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 06:51:31 AM »

I am having the same problem.I went to Napa and bought a gallon of clear with hardener.I used 320 grit sandpaper and sanded off the clear being very carefull not to sand the color.I used a Fuji HVLP to spray of the clear.It looks good so far.I was told you can buff out the clear after 48 hrs. but I have not got that far yet. This is my first time doing any sort auto painting,but I have sprayed a lot of cabinets. I know this may be a short time fix,but I plan to repaint the bus in the future.
    Don
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bevans6
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 07:17:16 AM »

Imron is a two part, single stage paint that is well known for being tough and long lasting.  We use it for chassis paint on race cars (if we don't powder coat them), and fleets seem to like it for trucks, tractors, things that take a beating.  It's not a base-coat/clear coat paint, their system is colour, reducer and hardener.  While it's about as tough a paint as you will find, it isn't as glossy and doesn't give you that deep glassy appearance that is why you use base coat/clear coat.

Again, I only know that because I used it a couple of times.  I'm not a painter unless cornered and forced into it!

Brian
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 07:21:50 AM »

Even if you sand into the color you can re-clear it. The only time you will have a problem is if you are sanding a metallic or pearl. Otherwise you can sand the clear down to the color and re-shoot. If done properly it will work fine. Just be careful and not sand through your color. It is a bonding problem but which problem is hard to say. It could peel from improper prep and not removing the contaminants on top of the color to using old products.

Just make sure you wash it down with soap and water after sanding and use a good prep-sol after it has dried before shooting the new to remove any residue or chemical that could be floating around. Also make sure you blow everything off with compressed air after washing so as to not blow any water out of crevices when you start clearing.

bobofthenorth did a small area on his Prevost that was peeling. He said it looks good doing what I suggested and re-cleared it with spray can. Maybe he can post a pic for us to see.

HTH,
Bryan
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Hobie
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 07:32:35 AM »

You said they mixed the clear into the color and now the clear is peeling?   Does that mean all the paint they sprayed is peeling or did they top coat it with a pure clear layer?  

Any peeling paint has to be sanded off.  You can strip it or sand it down to the factory layer.   As stated earlier, it was not installed correctly.   Either too long before clear coating, based not mixed for the clearcoat, or incompadable brands of paint, or the surface not sanded properly before painting.

Clear is used when adding trick candy or pearl effects and to give the paint a 'deep' look.  It is painted in two stages at the same time.  First the color until the vehical is covered solid, then several coats of clear.  The base coat of color is mixed specially for clear coating.  And it cannot be used without the clearcoat.  


Once something is painted you can't add a clearcoat.  It is like a separate paint job and needs to be sanded for the paint to stick.  And if you sand the paint, you will see the sand scratches through the clear.  
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bryanhes
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 07:45:01 AM »

If you do a final sand with 2000 grit before applying the clear you will not see any scratches, you want to work up to that in stages. I have base/clear projects sit for months and then cleared. It was fine. Just don't sand with a 320. A good starting point would probably be about a 600 to take down clear. And not always do you have to remove all of it. Only where it continues to want to peel. You need to feather the edges at where it stops peeling to have a smooth transition between the two. If it is on the roof it will not have to be perfect unless you have low flying planes inspecting your job up there,  Cheesy

Bryan
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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 08:36:06 AM »

Mixing the clear coat with the paint turns the two stage paint into a single stage paint.  The whole idea behind putting the bare paint down then the clear coat over is to protect the actual paint from UV, road grime, chipping, etc.  NEVER let a paint shop try to talk you into mixing the clear coat with the paint-all they're trying to do is to be lazy and get the painting done in one process-rather then painting first, waiting for tack up, then painting the clear over.  Good Luck, TomC
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luvrbus
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 09:05:42 AM »

Here you go John www.willyscustomconcepts.net  Mike Wilson @ 541-915-3866 he will answer all questions for you he does re clear coat all the time and is the best in the paint business he painted my bus 


good luck
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Hobie
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2010, 09:17:17 AM »

If you do a final sand with 2000 grit before applying the clear you will not see any scratches, you want to work up to that in stages. I have base/clear projects sit for months and then cleared. It was fine. Just don't sand with a 320. A good starting point would probably be about a 600 to take down clear. And not always do you have to remove all of it. Only where it continues to want to peel. You need to feather the edges at where it stops peeling to have a smooth transition between the two. If it is on the roof it will not have to be perfect unless you have low flying planes inspecting your job up there,  Cheesy

Bryan

Agreed this will work with 2000 grit.  I'm just old school and would paint and clear at the same time.   Smiley   Saves masking again.     While sanding/feathering/recoating  the defective area works for a repair I'm just concerned that since it peeled there was already an installing problem and you may find more lifting later.   Since you paid for the whole job, then they need to repaint the entire roof. 
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2010, 11:28:51 AM »

My clear coat is also peeling but i don't think it is due to a poor job. It was done in either 83 or 84 so it is about 27 years old and has spent its whole life outside. Smiley  A new paint job is on my wish list but will have to wait for a while.
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johns4104s
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2010, 12:31:48 PM »

Hobbie,

I have a 4104 that was painted by Starjet, this is base coat clear coat, great looking bus except for the clear peeling.

2nd bus is a MCI 9 Imeron with clear coat mixed in before they sprayed it,

3rd a 4104 Imeron painted 48 years ago, IT IS STILL GOOD AND POLISHES UP NICE.

4th 4104 horrible blue color

John

PS Clifford your guy from Starjet said for me to send him a picture, may help>>

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John316
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 02:45:15 PM »


PS Clifford your guy from Starjet said for me to send him a picture, may help>>

John,

We are all waiting with baited breath. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them reads this forum, so it also wouldn't surprise me if they make a fix attempt. I have very high interests in whether he does fix it, or not. I doubt we would ever take our bus back to him to get our paint job fixed, but I will be curious what he tells you. They did a hands down terrible job on our bus. It looks okay from a distance, but up close you can tell it isn't a good job at all. I wish we would have done the work ourselves, and taken it to Willie (Clifford's guy), and had it done right. We are stuck with it now.

For everybody else that is thinking about using Star Jet, I will say that we used them, and they did a terrible job on ours. They did a really nice job on Nick's coach, but I think that was only because he is a mod on the board. For us (the "regular" guy), they did horrible work, and we ended up fixing just about everything that they did. Not to mention the fact that they didn't place the back windows where the drawing called for them (so we are out of that storage space, thanks to Dick not being able to read a drawing).

Okay, sorry for my rant. It just really bugs me when a "reputable" company does shoddy work like that.

But we suffer the consequences for not asking on the board, before we went to them. Another note to self...always check here before doing anything (actually, I don't think I had found this place yet...).

God bless,

John
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uncle ned
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 03:52:24 PM »



I don't know about other buses but just look at Huggy Bear.

 She was painted by star jet about 20 years ago.

uncle ned
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John316
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2010, 04:31:30 PM »

Ah, yes, Ned. I forgot about Huggy. That was probably back when they took more pride in what they did, and they might have wanted to do a better job.

God bless,

John
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2010, 04:15:18 PM »

Imron also comes in clear. I have had clear Imron applied over traditional paints such as DuPont. A local paint/body shop that I use does that on motorcycles because of it's durability.
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2010, 05:23:03 AM »

Ned, your bus was painted before they came to Florida.  John Star was still with Dick when it was painted.
Jara told me at the time it was painted with Imron paint.  I don't think they started to use PPG base coat, clear coat until they came to Florida. 
Jack
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2010, 05:47:00 AM »

Ned, your bus was painted before they came to Florida.  John Star was still with Dick when it was painted.
Jara told me at the time it was painted with Imron paint.  I don't think they started to use PPG base coat, clear coat until they came to Florida. 
Jack

I thought they was in Columbus, OH Huh ?
Grin  BK  Grin
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John316
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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 07:06:46 AM »

I don't think they started to use PPG base coat, clear coat until they came to Florida. 
Jack

I thought they was in Columbus, OH Huh ?
Grin  BK  Grin

They were in Columbus last time I was out there (and that was fairly recent I might add). FWIW

God bless,

John
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 07:13:36 AM »

They had a shop in FL also John left and so did Dicks brother last I heard Dicks brother was at Marathon and John was in Oregon he helped with the graphics on my bus


good luck
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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 07:24:02 AM »

John doesn't do buses anymore unless it is one that he did before. I talked to him about redoing our paint job but i don't have that kind of money yet. Smiley  His is doing airplanes now. As of 3 years ago he was in the Eugene area.
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 07:29:28 AM »

I thought huggy looked so great cause she has her own special shaded spot under the oak tree at BK's lol.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 07:32:12 AM »

Mike Wilson's brother was doing the painting for John's airplane's designs at Bend Or and Mike does a few for him also  

good luck
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johns4104s
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2010, 10:04:20 AM »

Jara(Huggy Bear) did a lot of work to the 4104 I am having the roof clear coat challenge with. I know Mr Voreck (who did my conversion)being a friend of Jara at the time had Starjet shoot my 4104.
Jara put cruise control/shepard steering/transit wheels,drums,axles on the front wheels.and a host of other modifications.

John
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uncle ned
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2010, 10:15:34 AM »

Jack
 Did Star Jet paint jerrys bus.

Haven't seen it yet but i know he is just about as choosy as you.

Saw him at the RV show in Charlotte Looking for ideas
.Said he was going to keep you busy doing them.
just kidding but my kids keep me busy.


ned
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2010, 10:31:23 AM »

Don't want to hog the post, but I had wondered what happened to Bob's 4104.  Bob was a very good friend of mine.  I could tell you some story's about Bob and that bus that would make the hair stand up.  For you people that didn't know Bob he was a Bendex engineer.  Bob knew more about air brakes than most all the people on the net put together.  I am glad to hear that Bob's old bus has a good home. 
Now for Jerry's paint, yes he did get it done at Star Jet.  They did a good job and got it finished on time.  That was a shock for me.  I also had mine painted at Star Jet when they were here in FL.  My paint is 19 years old and just this year some of the clear coat is starting to come off on the cap.  I also have a few places where something got too close and took off some paint.  I may get some work done on it this year, if the time and money are there. 
Jack
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2010, 07:41:16 PM »

Jack,

Bob,Babara,Tami and myself go way back. We all used to meet at the Converted Coach rallies. In those days his bus was red and they pulled a Honda car. He gave me a E-3 foot valve for my 4104, this as he new being a Bendix engineer was an upgrade to replaced the OEM E-1 that came from the factory.

John

PS I was able to purchase Bobs bus from my good friend Leroy.
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2010, 05:47:14 AM »

Keeping one's bus in a covered area, away from sunlight and in moderate temperatures will make a great difference in any paint job. Sometimes the paint problem is not caused by the painter. Even so, I have seen many factory paint jobs with peeling clearcoat and fading pigment.
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johns4104s
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« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2010, 07:13:22 AM »

Bottomaker,

One of my 4104,s has a Imeron Paint job, its been on there for 35 years. Terrible charus green color. to my wife's disgust with a little wax it shines like a new penny. Its never had a day inside, nor have any of the tour buses?

John
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