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Author Topic: 8V92 update... not good news  (Read 6641 times)
RickB
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« on: March 04, 2010, 04:05:28 PM »

 Cry

Well I regret to inform you all that my motor, despite spending all this money and time,  may either have to wait for a year or a miracle from Heaven.

After they rebuilt the turbo, blower and put new injectors in, it seems to be blowing more oil out the drain tubes and it appears it may be developing a symptom that someone else has just been inquiring about in another post that gives me the willies. It appears that I have pressure in the cooling system, suggesting a possible head gasket or a cracked head. I remember when I saw that clogged aftercooler that I thought this motor must have gotten mighty hot.

So I'm debating having them pull the heads (about $300) and get a real look at what we're dealing with.

My guess is Don Fairchild is leaning back in his chair right about now saying "I had a feeling". It wasn't that I wasn't listening Don, it was that my pockets aren't as deep as the companies that usually own and run them and I had to see if it was possibly something simpler. What irks me is the darn thing has 60 lbs of oil pressure at full throttle! How can it be shot???

Kits, main bearings, and magnafluxing and then possibly replacing/rebuilding the heads is gonna be a big bill, one that would wreck our chances of traveling at all this summer and I won't do that to my family

The good side of this is I have an excellent running 8V71 already in my bus and I have some good possibilities in the music biz that could allow this to happen.

I have made the decision that "IF" I do this and that's a big if I'm gonna do it all the way.

Friends, don't let anyone tell you a repower from an 8V71 to an 8V92 is gonna be under $10K? It just don't work out that way if you can't do it all yourself.

I plan to go there tomorrow and video the pressure in the cooling system, the oil from the airbox drains, and I'm going to remove one airbox access port cover at a time while it's running to see if all the cylinders are contributing to the excessive oil problem or just one or two. I hope to video that as well. I'll upload tomorrow and get your input on what you see in the video.

I'm still a lucky guy... It is gonna be hard to break it to wifey later tonite though. She so believed in me and the decisions I have made... that girl stood by me every step of the way.

I gotta keep reminding myself to count my blessings...

Rick
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 05:32:59 PM »

That sux Rick - I feel your pain.  We went through a similar ordeal just over a year ago now.  For a while there it seemed like every day it got worse and the eventual bill just kept getting bigger.  We didn't really have any choice but to keep pouring more money into the engine we had.  At least you still have some options that let you keep using the bus.  But I'm sure that doesn't make the pain any less painful.
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 05:48:56 PM »

Rick...sorry to here this, I was hoping for the best.  Embarrassed

David Benck
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 07:05:56 PM »

Run the 8v71. Sure a 8v92 would be great but memories are better. Ten years from now what pushed you around won't matter all that much. My bus is still waiting for repairs that where supposed to happen before I took my big trip. My children are growing up and leaving, when I find myself all alone and wishing for the "good-old-days", I will finish it.
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 08:03:00 PM »

The great thing about having a perfectly good engine in the bus already is that you can still use it.  As to the 8V-92TA, bring it home and rebuild it your self!  Since you're not in a hurry, you can do it on your own time schedule and learn as you go.  Just try to find someone that could check up on your work as you progress.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 08:49:38 PM »

"Friends, don't let anyone tell you a repower from an 8V71 to an 8V92 is gonna be under $10K? It just don't work out that way if you can't do it all yourself."

And a conversion to an 8V92 gets you what---?

Fred Mc  GMC PD4106
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 10:56:08 PM »

So what is wrong with a 71 any way Huh. Enjoy what you got. M&C
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2010, 08:04:21 AM »

Rick -

I think you're going to find, if you take a deep breath and ponder, that Barn Owl's comment above is dead on for this summer's planned trip.

As some others also have said, you've got a good running engine now, so enjoy the trip and worry about the 92 when you get back.

I used to put 80,000 miles a year on MC8s & 9s with the same powertrain you've got - treat it right and it's unbreakable.  Oh, sure, you climb 6% grades sitting on the governor in 2nd gear, but so what?  Lots of 18-wheelers will be pulling the same grades at the same speed, so you won't be alone.

War story:  On the run from Fresno, CA to Las Vegas, the difference between the 8V71- and 8V92-powered coaches was all of 30 minutes and 25 gallons of fuel.  The 92s were "faster", but sucked more diesel in the process.  The price you pay for 2-stroke HP & Torque.

Don't let the "Tim Allen Syndrome" spoil a good trip for your family this year!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RickB
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2010, 09:33:58 AM »

Well it's official...In order to put this in my bus I would have to have it totally gone through. We opened the airbox access port and there was alot of oil in there. Way too much oil for a motor that hasn't been run an hour yet. The good news is we pulled the thermostats abd the was no bubbling so the heads are probably fine.

Now, the question is do I put it away for the future and fix it as we go or just try and get out of this thing with as little pain as possible (which is still alot of pain).There are some deeper issues/philosophies involved in this that just aren't clear to me now but I'm sure if I'm patient the deeper stuff will become clearer.

It's the whole "why are we in such a hurry"? questions and "just why did you buy this bus"? kind of questions.

The good news: My wife, bless her heart, is still in my corner and supportive of however I decide to go on this. And, Gumpy may have found me the mother of all deals on some house batteries. WOOO HOOO!

Don I'll be giving you a call later today in regards to what this thing is realistically worth as it sits.

Thanks to all of you that helped me with this, You guys are something else.

Rick
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Fredward
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2010, 08:09:27 PM »

Rick,
I've been following your experience with the '92 and I'm sorry to hear the direction its taken recently. I, too have thought it would be fun to get a hyped up 892 instead of the 871. And I'd have to say this damn 871 pulling a toad is faster than my in-laws and buddies with their chipped powerstrokes and duramaxes pulling campers. We maintain a steady 72 mph most of the time. Of course its 15 mph up the 6% grades in the mountains, but that only takes about 20 minutes out of the entire day. Unless you go up to 500hp I doubt you're going to see a whole lot of difference? Of course a -9 weighs more than my -5 does......

Any engine can fail any number of ways; but the sense I get is the 71 series is more durable than the 92 series. Less HP but really, who cares? We still get there in plenty of time. In my case, on multi day trips, we always arrive at the campground before the pickups pulling trailers do. How is your 871 set up? What injectors does it have? Maybe stop the bleeding on the 92 and turbo the 71 as Tom C did?
Fred
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Fred Thomson
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2010, 05:51:57 AM »

I agree with Fred. Last spring we changed our 8V71, installing a fresh 8V71 in our MC-8. Our reasons for not switching to a 92 were as follws:
    Less chance of overheating problems
    Easiest swap
    Have plenty of power (we do not drive in mountains very often)
    No electronics

This is "our way", YMMV  Jack
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2010, 06:19:04 AM »

You guys are kidding yourself thinking a 8v71 is more durable than a 8v92 heating problems are caused by hp nothing else 92 series work great in a Eagle with no heating problems.
 Cooling a 8v92 is a MCI problem not the 8v92 the factory installed 8v92 in a MCI is not a problem keeping cool in the one I have been around


good luck
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gumpy
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2010, 06:26:16 AM »

... 92 series work great in a Eagle with no heating problems.
 Cooling a 8v92 is a MCI problem not the 8v92 the factory installed 8v92 in a MCI is not a problem keeping cool in the one I have been around

That may be true, but neither Rick, Jack, nor Fred own Eagles, nor do they own MCIs with factory installed 8v92s. They own MC5s, MC8s and MC9s which all
came with 8v71s and so moving up to the bigger engine would most certainly add cooling issues for all of them.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2010, 06:38:07 AM »

That is still not a problem Craig set a 8v92 at 350 to 400 hp it will stay cool and have more power and get better mileage than a 8v71 with a turbo at 350 hp.
I know I did that with my MCI 8 you turn a 8v71 up to 304 hp from the factory setting of 277 hp and keep your foot in it that puppy will heat up with the best


good luck
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 06:50:00 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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RickB
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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2010, 07:01:52 AM »

Hey guys,

thanks for all your input/kind wishes.

In regards to the cooling discussion. I am quite sure I will/would not have had any cooling issues with the 8V92 because I, like you Craig, rebuilt my cooling system and put the larger 8v92 radiators and the smaller pulley in. But man if you have a lack of cooling the wet sleeves certainly are less forgiving because like Clifford pointed out that added HP leads to more heat, which lessens your reaction time between overheat and damage. But that's why we have hi temp shutdowns right? Personally, I wouldn't want to have either motors in the mountains in an MCI with leaky door and scroll seals and partially blocked radiators.

If a non- turbo'd motor loses 4% of it's power every 1000 ft above sea level you're asking alot of a 275 HP normally aspirated motor to clear Eisenhower pass in Colorado so you better give her some good,  cooldrinking water and lots of it.

As far as the update. Here's what I know or what I think I know.

There is alot of oil getting either:

A. past the rings and into my airbox

B. oil from long ago dripping down from the cracks and crevices of the airbox that you can't see from outside the motor.

So, after a heartfelt talk with Don yesterday (Clifford feel free to let that great knowledge of yours be heard here)
I am currently on a search for a reasonable dyno to find out once and for all if putting a load on this thing will clear up the smoking and leaking issues. We haven't ruled out a blown head gasket/cracked head yet but there are no bubbles in either thermostat housing at idle so I am leaning on Clifford's thoughts to the other poster that it  may be the water pump which will have to be changed because of clearance issues anyway.The cummins shop 5 miles from my house wanted $3k to dyno my motor and interstate diesel wanted $1200. That is an awful lot of money to find out this thing is in need of major expensive repairs. So, anybody here know of someplace within say 250 miles of St Paul Minnesota with a dyno who would do it for say, $500-700 dollars?


I think the biggest nagging issue for me in this is two of the main guys (Clifford and Don) that we all rely on for info say it is a good chance that it will clear up and two guys in the area that Minnesota busnuts rely on JD at C&J coach and my mechanic Curt both feel that it probably won't. So, I am a bit stuck here but time has a way of bringing clarity so I am sitting back, taking a breath,  and trying to really see what ALL my options are.

It is a bit unsettling to me that my mechanic seems very interested in buying from me a motor that he says needs, when all is said and done around $14K to have it ready for install, but let's face it, it's mostly labor that kills you with these things. And he is taking into consideration the retrofit as well. I am also looking at other selling possibilities and maybe just keeping it to see how our finances feel in a few months or a year from now

So the fat lady is warming up backstage but she hasn't sung yet.

The other possibly bigger issue/question for me resulted from all of your posts about we buy these buses to relax and watch the world go racing by and them of course we feel the need to catch up and race too.

That issue may be a long time getting straight in my head. I think one of the biggest wrenches in the works for me is I started my 8V71 at 34 degrees yesterday after not running her for a month so I have an awesome motor in my bus and most other folks are repowering becuase they lost a motor. That's the difference between a want and a need.


You guys are awesome and you sure show it when folks are a bit down or in the case of Clifford las week "under the gun"....

Rick



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