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Author Topic: After Market Cruise Control  (Read 3387 times)
chuckd
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« on: March 07, 2010, 02:51:32 PM »

If you have  read my trip home report you know my cc does not work.  I am going to do a search of all my documentation to see if I can find out what type it is etc., but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

When I searched the forum it seems that King Cruise Controls and Rostra are mentioned the most.  It looks like Rostra is less expensive, so why not use the least cost alternative?  My Prevost has a high idle setting already, and Pete is a board member and fellow GMC (fwd) owner. 

So what is the collective wisdom between the two in terms of performance and ease of install?

Thanks in advance as always.

Chuckd
1979 Prevost 35 footer
Stillwater Mn
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pvcces
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 07:37:58 PM »

We have a Rostra and it has done well. In the beginning, shortly after the install, we had some settings to change and a simple wiring failure.

The wiring failure wasn't serious, but getting used to the multipurpose design caused some scratching of our heads.

The shutoff feature that responds to a brake light signal or wiring failure is supposed to work with either a normally open or normally closed brake light circuit. This means that there must be a path for a small sensing current to flow through at all times, or the cruise will drop out.

These older GMs used a turn signal switch that has a break before make design, so turning the turn signal on or off could cause the cruise to quit. It didn't happen all the time, which made the problem a little harder to solve.

The solution was to connect a lamp load to the brake light line so that there would always be a current path for the sensing circuit. I used a 12 volt trouble light for this purpose, and that ended the dropping out problem.

The cruise is a little slow to respond to a loss of speed, so that we lose a couple of MPH before it gets on the throttle when we go through a dip. Other than that, it does fine.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
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JohnEd
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 07:49:45 PM »

The poor speed regulation "feature" would turn me off.  I know it would impact MPG a little.  Is the King any better at regulation?  If not then it is a moot point but if it does a better job then......just how much more expensive is it?

2 cents....or less,


John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 08:06:24 PM »

If you have a King now just repair it they have great tech support and parts.
I have a 2500 King no complaints but there is a difference in price between the 2 yours on that model of Prevost should be a Dana or Bendix some models runs off a speedometer cable if it hasn't been replaced


good luck
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 05:19:08 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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TomC
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 10:07:12 PM »

I have the King Cruise that simply pulls down on the gas pedal at the driver's seat, and it works very well. Since I have a Jake Brake, I don't have a high idle, which the King Cruise can be used as.  Will use the King Cruise again on my truck conversion (can you believe I drove the truck without cruise control for 12 years and 700,000 miles?)  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 10:32:18 PM »

I currently have the king2500 and it has recently failed, the cable seems to be jumping around like a gear is broken or something. It is on my list of fixes for spring. I Have to say that they couriered a shiny new manual directly to me and are very accountable - a pleasure to deal with for sure!
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chuckd
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 04:56:09 AM »

Okay, 3 Kings 1 Rostra.  Where is King Controls, it used to be part of the King Sat system.  Actually it was way before the King Sats, now I don't see it on the web site for the sats.  Where is the home page anyone?

Thanks again

Chuck
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RickB
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 05:08:46 AM »

Chuck,
We had an inoperative Dana on our bus when we bought it I ended up pulling it out because I couldn't find parts for it.
You are in stillwater? We're in north st Paul. If you ever need any help let me know.
Six one two 385-7397.
We have a pretty healthy bus community in our area.
I would go with the cruise that has the best parts supply if I wanted to install it.
Rick
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 06:47:03 AM »

Chuck,

Cruise King LLC - 22250 Glynview Trail   Faribault  MN  55021

Ph. 507-334-0250   Fax.  507-334-0206

E-mail:  mail@cruisecontrolking.com

David Benck
Somerset, WI
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luvrbus
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 07:01:22 AM »

www.kingcontrols.com for satellite  

www.cruisecontrolking.com for cruise control  


www.trektets.com  for both



good luck
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 07:40:27 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Dreamscape
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 07:33:01 AM »

Chuck,

Aren't you glad you bought your bus! Look at all the great help you get!

Paul
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chuckd
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 07:40:04 AM »

Holy smokes ask and you shall receive!

Thanks a bunch.

David did you get my e-mail?

Chuck
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Greg Roberts
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 08:12:28 AM »

I bought a Rostra from Pete and it is a very good cruise. The issue with MPH dropping a couple before it responds as mentioned earlier in this thread is really only a matter of adjusting the dip switches to get the response that you want and within the capability of your power to weight ratio. The support with Rostra is very good as well. I also use a wireless control on my Rostra and it works perfectly as well.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 08:33:45 AM »

A lot of difference installing a cruise on a DDEC and a MUI Greg I find the Rostra will not maintain on a MUI engine but I didn't buy the units from Pete and had Rostra and the guy in Houston trying to help and the guy in Houston knew nothing and the only thing Rostra would say was the that return spring was to stiff so now I have a King 



good luck
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Greg Roberts
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 09:12:48 AM »

That is a very good point. Yes, my unit is a DDEC with the electronic throttle and the unit is pulling the throttle perfectly. the MUI must take a lot more torque from the cruise unit.

A lot of difference installing a cruise on a DDEC and a MUI Greg I find the Rostra will not maintain on a MUI engine but I didn't buy the units from Pete and had Rostra and the guy in Houston trying to help and the guy in Houston knew nothing and the only thing Rostra would say was the that return spring was to stiff so now I have a King 



good luck
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RTS/Daytona
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2010, 10:23:39 AM »

I found the OEM Installation instructions for setting the dip switches - VERY CONFUSING

and The original support person at Rostra (difficult to deal with  - especially when I said I was an Engineer)

So after many trails and errors and lots of phone calls - I got one of there engineers to FULLY explain the dip switch settings

I have written my OWN set of instructions - that works VERY well for Buses -

The current support team at Rostra is much inproved - The anti-engineer guy has finally retired

The tricks are:
. Have the correct amount of slack in the cable that pulls the throttle (1/8") - too loose cause lag and lost speed on initial set
. If you have a Unusually hard throttle (over 25 lbs of force is required at the cable pull point) - install an assist spring
  (Throttle pedals that require over 25 lbs at the cable pull - MOST drivers would find EXTREMELY UNCONFORTABLE and Fatiguing during NORMAL driving)
. The Rostra Global differs from earlier versions - switch 1&2 and 7-9  let you adjust the RATE of control response and The timing of the control response)

Yes guys I have a horse in this race (I sell discounted Rostra for Buses)  - but The cost difference is HUGE - The KING IS A GREAT UNIT - but  it is EXPENSIVE

Here's copy of my instruction:s
******************************************************************************
* Switch settings                                                                                                        *
******************************************************************************
Switch 1& 2 (gain)
         . This controls the degree of 'surge' the cruise control will                       
            have. If the unit tends to apply too much throttle change for
            small changes in speed - then "lower the gain". If the unit does              
            not apply enough throttle change corrective action - then set         
            the gain "higher"  
                 . Example - (high horsepower/light weight vechicles - set to low)  
                 . Suggested setting- High  (1=on  2=on)

 Switch 3-6 Pulses/Mile
          . Proper setting of these switchs controls minimum speed to set
            cruise and Provides a 1-2 MPH change (up or down) per tap of the
            accel/decel switches
           . To Calculate "PULSES / MILE"  (PULSES/MILE)
            1.  Determine the number of tire revolutions / mile (TIRE-REV/Mile) for your size tires   
                    EXAMPLE
                       09R22.5 = 542 revs/mile                12R22.5 = 492 revs/mile    
                       10R22.5 = 520 revs/mile                11R24.5 = 480 revs/mile
                       11R22.5 = 504 revs/mile                12R24.5 = 470 revs/mile
             2.  Determine the number of pulses / tire rev (PULSES/TIRE-REV) P/TIRE REV
                      EXAMPLE
                       . RTS & GMC buses have 60 notch front hub w/pulse sensor => 60 P/TIRE REV
                       . Many MCI/Eagles have 4 bolts on the front hub pulse device => 4 P/TIRE REV
                       . Many Speedo Cable Pulsers give 8 pulses/cable rev X axel ratio =>P/TIRE-REV
                        or
                       . ATEC tailshaft Vechicle speed sensors produce 12 pulse / tailshaft revolution
                        12 pulses per tailshaft revolution times your axle ratio = PULSES/TIRE-REV
            3. Calculate PULSES/MILE by multipling PULSES/TIRE-REV by TIRE-REV/MILE
            4. Use the chart on page 4 of the Rostra Cruise Control Installation manual to set
                 the switches to the corect PULSES PER MILE range

Switch 7-9  Engine / SetUp Timer
              . If cruise speed drops off 5 miles per hour when initially set to 55 and then recovers
                Slowly - change to higher setting
                Settings are based on 1/8" slack in cable - More slack will cause cruise to surge or
                loss speed on set
   . Suggested setting = (Weight to HoresPower Ration (HIGH - LOW ?)
                       (High Weight to small HP Ratio = HIGH  or    Low Weight to big HP ratio = LOW)

Switch 10 VSS Source
             . Magnet pickups require this switch to be set to OFF
               (sine waves  have a negative and positive component to the wave form).
             . Speed signals processed thru a computer (ATEC / DDEC) require this    
               switch to be Set ON for square wave (only positive wave component)

switch 11 Manual /Automatic
            . Set to "manual' allows longer application of full throttle during       
              heavy loads (hill climbs) before tripping a reset

Switch 12 Control Switch
            . Dash mounted switch (250-3592 or 250-3593) - set to open (switch off)




Plus the wiring IS DOWN TO ONLY 4 WIRES
***********************************************************************************
 Quick & simple wiring for diesels / Rostra Global 250-1223 & Rostra 250-3592 or 250-3593  switch
***********************************************************************************
Ground (-) ->To the following wires  (Note -  Dark Blue  is n/a for diesels & grounded to prevent noise)
                        * (Black & Dark Blue Wire) - From Control Unit 250-1223)
                        * (Black Wire & Blue Wire) - From switch 250-3592 or 3593)
                       
Ignition (+) ->to the following wires
                        *(Brown wire) - From Control Unit 250-1223
                        *(White wire & Gray wire) - From switch 250-3592 or 3593)
                        *(Red wire) - From Control Unit 250-1223
 
Brake (cold)-> to the following wire (Note - Cold side of brake switch is + only when braking)
                          * (Violet wire) - From Control Unit 250-1223
 
Speedo ->  to (Gray wire) - From Control Unit 250-1223
 
plus

Switch Plug ->(4 pin- Thin Red/Brown/Yellow/Green wires) - to plug as shown in instruction sheet
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 10:29:42 AM by RTS/Daytona » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2010, 11:50:24 AM »

Thanks Pete. Your write up certainly is more clear than the book from several years back.
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chuckd
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2010, 12:18:34 PM »

I called King Controls in Faribault and they charge $695 for their unit, Pete is around $200.  I may be a touch too thrifty to spend an additional $495.

Chuckd
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