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Author Topic: some pics of my new mc8  (Read 5869 times)
johns4104s
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« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2010, 11:10:34 AM »

Good looking MC! 8.

Although I have always liked the original 8 cap, I feel it gives the front of the bus more style

John

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JohnEd
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« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2010, 11:59:41 AM »

Bryan.

Speaking of heat on a 2 stroke. My 8V 71 really never gets above about 150-160 or so when its cold outside 50 degree or lower. If its in the 70's it will run at about 165. Not until its in the 80's will it run at about 180. Is that not ok?
Do I need to make a rad cover for colder weather to get the temp up?


I don't understand why the likes of Dallas or Clifford, et all experts, aren't commenting on this issue.  My info since I was a teenager was that it is important that an engine reaches operating temp as quickly as possible. Cars have manifold heat risers and thermostats and D's have radiator shutter stats, fan clutches and fan stats to get the temp up quickly and keep it up in cold weather.  Lots of cars had thermo air intake plumbing re directors to allow the air intake to be drawn from across the exhaust manifold.  My understanding is that the block and everything else in the engine expands and contracts with temp and that the engine clearances are designed into the engine at a temp of 180 for the old stuff and 200 for the new generation of smog engines.  With clearances down to .5 thousandths and a block that expands 10 and a crank of dissimilar steel and all the rest I intuit their concern and rational for material out lay in that area.   My answer is an emphatic YES to your question of needing a temp riser system.  You may not see a nickels worth of difference if your temp is too low but I think you are experiencing accelerated engine wear or where...as the case may be..

Please note that I am the guy that, till yesterday, thought a DDEC 2 stroke used a common rail system.  Sure would like to gets the experts take on this topic as so very many are dealing with the temp issue going one way or the other.

Thanks,

John
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2010, 12:37:12 PM »

Basically heat risers and heated intakes etc had more to do with gas powered engines and keeping the carb happy in it's intended range. On race type engines the cooler the intake the better and therefore no chokes etc. With the advent of fuel injection it was no longer necessary. Remember when we put 210 thermostats in for winter driving and then replace them with 180's for summer driving? Basically that was just to keep the insides warmer!!! Passing emmissions is what led to hotter thermostats now days but has nothing to do with engine wear.  As far as engine wear on diesels I doubt a 20 or 30 degree temperature really makes any difference unless it's the difference between 220 and 250. If the ole girl wants to run at 160 I just put my foot into it. It'll get to 180 soon enough!
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JohnEd
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« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2010, 07:21:51 PM »

CS,

I don't disagree with anything you said.  Additionally, I was told that running on choke washed the cylinder walls and promoted wear.  I think that bringing the iron up to op temp and design clearance is buried in their motivation.   We have all the same concerns for the D as the gassers and the basic diff is the carb so deleting it didn't change the game all that much.  Running rich also tends to cool an engine, all other things being constant, so  getting it on to a leaner mix is productive on that count.

As I recall, the race/high perf engines were even more cantankerous when cold.  My question was "why do you keep blipping the throttle?" and my Bud told me that it warmed the engine and oil up way faster.

I can easily stand corrected, though.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
Barn Owl
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« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2010, 07:50:21 PM »

John, I thought the same thing, that 150 to 160 was running cold. As always, make sure your readings are correct first before tearing into things. Where are the experts?
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« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2010, 08:50:22 PM »

I need to pick up an IR gun. I know that in the summer on a 95 degree day it sits right at 180-185 at 75mph. On the trip down to Dallas and Cats for the shindig last weekend it stayed at about 165-170 and temps outside were in the low 70's. It seemed to run great. No problems at all. I need to get the IR gun on it when the temp is about 60 outside and run it down the highway until the temp gets steady on the guage then check it again.

I asked this because I have read in a couple different posts about harm if temps are to low.

Bryan
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RJ
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« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2010, 08:54:06 PM »

My guess is that Reel's dash temp gauge is reading low.  It needs to be compared to the engine room mechanical one.

MC-9s first went into production in 1979.  Bus company I worked for at the time got the first one off the production line.  See the photo below.

Late model MC-8s with the "square windows" still had the "D" window and slanted first & last windows.  All others were square, plus the "passenger blinder" above the third baggage bay was removed.

I'm guessing that a PO of Reel's coach did some updating with MC-9 components.  Note in the photo below of the first 9 that the trim around the billboard area at the top right behind the door has a slant to it.  This only lasted on the '79 models, was later squared off.  Reel's coach has the later style trim, which is why I think it's an updated MC-8.

If Reel will post the serial # and the Unit #, more sleuthing will determine more info.



Reel -

A suggestion - go into your profile and edit it to include your city & state at a minimum.  That will help us help you even better, as we're scattered all over and have many recommendations for local places to assist, not to mention fellow busnuts that may be nearby!

FWIW & HTH. . .

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 08:57:09 PM by RJ » Logged

RJ Long
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reelnative
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« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2010, 10:04:00 PM »

hi rj ill change my profile,

my vec id number is s12198 on the plaqe behind the driver seat it says it was built in 1976 ive looked and cant find my number on any of the sites were they say they have all the busses that were made and can tell you were they were delivered to as first owners if you can find out that would be great, im waiting for more records on the bus and would like to know were it org went to when it was new I do know that it at one time was owned by holts coach lines then owned by christian acadamy in apopka fla, they were the ones who had the motor rebuilt, then sold it to the church daycare that I bought it from.
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reelnative
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« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2010, 11:20:49 PM »

hey guys I just took this info right out of the mc9 operators manual.

most efficent engine temperature range is 170 to 195 deg f, if possable avoid going to full throttle until engine coolant temp reaches 140deg f

so I guess if your runnin at 155 or 165 your in the ok range but a tad bit hotter is more efficent, and that info came right out of the manual.

so from the mc-9 operators manual 140 to 195 deg is the safe full throttle operating range
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 12:40:30 AM by reelnative » Logged

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buswarrior
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« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2010, 10:10:25 AM »

Back up one step, reelnative.

How do you know what the temp of the engine is?

Dashboard gauges in buses are not to be trusted, and need to be compared to something that can be.

Even the mechanical gauges down the back are old and tired.

Best tool to buy for a busnut is an infrared thermometer gun.

Everything mechanical will show an irregular temperature on its way to failure.

Once you get the hang of it, it is an even better tool than your hammer, and you will find all manner of things to check with it.

the engine experts probably stopped reading the thread, it has wandered all over. Start a new one with just this topic on running cool, if the engine is indeed running cool. Go out and make it prove to you it is running cool.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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johns4104s
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« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2010, 10:21:10 AM »

Buswarrior,

With the temp gun which engine area is the best to check? Around the thermostat area? What other area's are good to shoot, that will give us a idea at what temp the engine is running?

Thanks

John
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bryanhes
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« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2010, 12:33:31 PM »

Wouldn't the sending unit area be the best since it is where the sender is? Maybe a coolant hose would give you more exact? I guess while we are at it we could check both exhaust manifolds to see how close both sides are running.

I did pick up a decent IR gun in a kit from Craftsman. They have it on sale for $89 if you are a Craftsman Club members: http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_03482004000P

I thought it was a good deal.

Bryan
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2010, 06:31:28 PM »

The IR gun is worth it's weight in gold. You can do a walkaround and check so many things while rolling down the road. I even use it to make sure the beer is still cold, when the wife is getting hot,and when the wife is getting cold. Actually checking the wife is just making sure it still works. I can usually tell without the IR gun. Grin
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buswarrior
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« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2010, 06:57:27 PM »

For live in the moment, your assistance can shoot down through the floor access in the back and aim it close at the coolant pipe heading forward to the Defroster, (open the valve)

It is loud and dusty, according to my daughter who was doing this long before her driver's license.

By the time you pull over and run back there, the temps have changed, so don't waste your time trying to grab anything hotter than your idle temp.

Shooting the pipe above and below the thermostats yields interesting results during warm up.

Seeing the temp heading into the engine after the rads is good for scratching your head.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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