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Author Topic: Real simple question about WS wipers on old GMs.  (Read 3070 times)
zubzub
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« on: March 12, 2010, 11:33:42 PM »

Are the valves that control them variable, i.e. can the wipers be adjusted faster or slower, or is it more of a on /off thing?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 04:09:03 AM by zubzub » Logged

TomCat
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2010, 03:57:21 AM »

The twin controls for the air powered windshield wipers on my Thomas coach, each have a button that must be lifted to start the wipers into motion.

That same button has the capability to twist clockwise/counterclockwise, and change the speed of the wiper arm movement.

If I stop the wipers operation, and need to 'Park' the arm at the bottom of the glass, I press down to the wiper control button.

And although I have heard they exist, I do not have intermittent air wiper controls.

That is as variable as my wiper controls get.

HTH

Jay
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« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 01:29:09 PM by TomCat » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2010, 06:01:09 AM »

The ones on my RTS (and one I scavenged from an MC-9 being scrapped) are variable speed.  On them there is a detent at the off position.  To park them you turn slightly further, up against a stop, and they park, when you let go it returns to the detent.  To turn them on you turn it the other way and the further you turn it, the faster the wipers.
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bryanhes
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2010, 07:15:21 AM »

My 4905 has a knob for each wiper. If you turn the knob one way they get faster, the other way slower. The only thing that drives me nuts is that they are never in sync and when you turn them off sometimes they don't stop where they are supposed to so you have to give the knob a quick turn to place them back into park Roll Eyes . I thought about changing to electric  Undecided

Bryan
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2010, 07:58:43 AM »

Bryan, a lot of folks do go electric and I probably will one day.  The dual knobs is the way mine is set up too.  When you turn them off, have you tried turning it a little past the "stop" you feel?  On mine, when you do that it feels like you are pushing against a spring, but it is actually air pressure and doing so parks the wiper properly.  When you ease up on it the knob returns to the stop position.
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2010, 09:19:55 AM »

Mike,

Yes I do turn it back past the stop. It sometimes parks properly sometimes not. Anyone have an idea on cost to change to electric?

Bryan
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Lin
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 09:46:36 AM »

I still have air wipers and would consider electric better, but unless you switch to a single motor system, the two will not be synchronized.  I believe many that go electric still have separate controls and motors.
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johns4104s
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2010, 11:00:11 AM »

i am sure Luke has some rebuilt ones

John
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WEC4104
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2010, 11:16:05 AM »

As far as I know, the air operated wipers on my 4104 are the original equipment. There is one knob for each side, and they are definitely variable speed. They are not "self parking", so getting them to stop in the right location (when I want to turn them off) usually takes me 2-3 tries. 
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bryanhes
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 11:28:35 AM »

Mine also has two knobs. If I changed over I think I would have one motor with an arm to the other. That is part of what bugs me is the two not being in sync and the wife then wants me to turn hers on so she can see (dont know why she's not driving  Cheesy Grin) then when they are on they are running at different speeds  Roll Eyes. Thats a project for later I suppose.

Bryan
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TomCat
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 01:27:37 PM »

.
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 02:19:42 PM »

Just go to the local truck parts place and you can buy new ones for around $20-$29 if I remember correctly. I scavenged some free ones off of an old truck in a salvage yard. They are variable and have a "park" position like others have said. The location of the line inputs where different on the replacement but that was no big deal to change with a few fittings. The only thing I don't like about the air is sometimes the noise they make and not being able to have them on a time delay. Bottom line, if it is the valves, it is an easy fix.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 02:49:21 PM »

My original 4104 air wipers work just like High Tech Redneck said.

I really like them and hope they never wear out. The best part is they can be made to move incredibly slow.

If they don't park properly I turn the knob in the reverse direction against the spring and put them where I want. They will not make a full sweep using the park feature.

I don't really care if they are synchronized and can't imagine why this is important? I kind of like each one doing its own thing!!

If you link both together then when you have a problem both wipers are down. At least the original setup will usually leave you with at least one working.
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zubzub
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 03:37:40 PM »

Thanks I was just wondering.....I scavenged the valves from the old prevost.  The valve doesn't feel variable  when I run air through it, but I haven't adjusted the air pressure etc...as per the book.  It is amazing though, the original air motors ar really tight and strong.  I have had tons of problems with electric motors/gear assemblies from the 60's so it was a nice surprise to get my wipers working.
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 07:32:47 PM »

My old valves were worn out and did not have the precise control of the speed that I have now. They also didn't park and they leaked and hissed all of the time. Better, used valves made a big difference for me.

WEC4104, If your variable speed is working well then you should have park. When you bump the knob to park, the wipers should park from any position without trial and error.


In case there are those out there like I was and just didn't know (I didn't know park existed until I got good working valves): The valve is Park-Off-On and the park position is momentary against the internal spring. For example, when I turn my wipers off I turn counter clockwise to off, then a little more counter clockwise to park, then release and switch returns to off position.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 09:21:21 PM »

Gus,

If the drivers wiper goes out what good does the passenger side do you? My neck does not stretch that far for it to do me any good, lol. I guess I could have the wife navigate  Cheesy Cheesy

Maybe I need to check my valves. They seem to work fine other than parking. It could be me, maybe I need to turn a little harder counter clockwise  Huh

Barn Owl,

Are you talking about the new valves for $20-$29?

Bryan
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RJ
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 09:27:58 PM »

Zub -

From the photo in your signature, it looks like your 4104 has bee retrofitted with the parallelogram-style wiper arms, which is a good thing!

For everyone's info, Sprague (who makes the wiper motors) does have intermittant controls for the air wipers now.  Requires a third knob.  When in intermittent mode, will operate one or both wipers.  When both are operated, they are synchronized on-off, on-off, on-off, depending on the delay.  When turned on w/o the intermittent feature, the synchronization goes away.

Intermittent control switch should be available from your local truck parts house, or give Luke a call.

Oh, and a good coating of RainX works well, too!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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zubzub
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 05:46:50 AM »

I actually pulled a set of intermitents controls from a transit.  It's a little fancy, and definitely needs a wiper motor that selfs parks...kind of cool though.  From what I can tell my sprague motors don't have a park fitting (2nd air line from control valve to motor) so I just blocked the park port on the control valve.  But the cool thing is I have wipers again, and they seem to work fine.  Even cleaned the air line air filter, it was hard to open....I doubt it had ever been done.. FWIW it was not very dirty, no trash just some blackness, rinsed out easily with thinner.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 05:52:20 AM by zubzub » Logged

Barn Owl
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 03:51:46 PM »

Quote
Are you talking about the new valves for $20-$29?

I know my price was in that range somewhere. It has been over a year so I don't know today's prices, but I don't think they are very expensive.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 07:11:24 PM »

Bryan,

With one working at least I can see something. I can also salvage whatever I need from the good one as an emergency fix.

Barn Owl,

Very interesting, my valves work just the opposite direction, CCW for on and higher speed and CW to Off and Park! Took a while to get used to.
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 07:26:05 PM »

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Very interesting, my valves work just the opposite direction, CCW for on and higher speed and CW to Off and Park! Took a while to get used to.

Gus, I bet I have it backwards and that you are right. Most all valves I know that flow something are CCW to open. It has been all winter since I have been in the bus and I have been posting faster than my brain can process what I should say. Trying to stay active one the board and do to many other things. The best part about posting here is when someone is wrong they don't get torn up, but gently nudged in the right direction. Thanks.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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Have fun, be great, that way you have Great Fun!
gus
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2010, 07:19:27 PM »

Barn Owl,

Sorry, I had no intention of correcting your post, I truly thought yours were different. Not at all unusual with old buses.

It still is odd to me to operate wiper knobs CCW even though my brain knows that is the usual direction to open a valve. Too many years operating electric wipers I guess!
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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2010, 09:01:43 PM »

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Sorry, I had no intention of correcting your post

Gus you are very kind. I didn't read it that way but I played it safe in case I was wrong. Everyone that reads post on this board, especially mine, has to do like Reagan said, "Trust but verify" (not the first person to use it, but he made it famous). If I am wrong, I want, and I need, to get it right. I'm here mostly to learn, and I try to the best of my abilities not to be a lurker, but someone who contributes. I am a member of several other non-bus boards but I don't contribute much to them. I have a low tolerance for "attitude gone wrong" which is all some of those posters know. I have yet to find a BB group who treated each other with greater respect and dignity than the two bus boards I frequent. I view many here as good a family and would treat them as such, knowing they would do the same for me and then some. I couldn't do this hobby without this group.

Sorry for the off topic rambling.

Thanks
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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Itís the education gained, and the ability to apply, and share, what we learn.
Have fun, be great, that way you have Great Fun!
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