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Author Topic: Flying J charging to dump tanks?  (Read 6104 times)
desi arnaz
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« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2010, 04:38:45 PM »

how are they charging more for a credit card?  that is against the credit card companies rules.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2010, 04:45:35 PM »

how are they charging more for a credit card?  that is against the credit card companies rules.

They've been doing that for more than 3 decades!  The credit cards charge a percentage for every transaction. Stations started passing that charge on to their customers when cut-throat pricing dropped profits to near zero. Started out as 3-4 cents off for cash. Now it's more like 5-10 cents, and frankly, I'm not sure that covers the transaction fees because the fees are percentage and with the cost of fuel at $4 a gallon, 3% is 12 cents and 4% is 16 cents.

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Craig Shepard
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2010, 04:50:40 PM »

BK, from what I've read in the trade press, perhaps you'd better start using a fuel surcharge in the charter calculation, fuel appears to have nowhere to go but up.

Customers are just going to have to accept that the cheapest rate is with a surcharge. The guy who gambles 6 months out on a price may win the charter and lose the profit to fuel rises.

Conversely, the customer also wins if fuel came down, and the charter outfit has to accept that the windfall needs to be shared.

I can't remember where those industry accepted fuel surcharges are published on the internet.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

BW, I understand this and agree however... most folks chartering a bus have no clue and the minute you mention "fuel surcharge" it's the last you hear from them! (at least in our area!)

Quote from: desi arnaz
how are they charging more for a credit card?  that is against the credit card companies rules.

Uh yeah, uhuh well they been doing it and getting away with it for years! Next time your out and about look at the Pilot, Love's, Flying J signs they either have a price and it says CASH price or the newest high tech signs flash back and forth between cash & credit prices!
FWIW YMMV
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2010, 04:59:45 PM »

Quote from: gumpy
They've been doing that for more than 3 decades!  The credit cards charge a percentage for every transaction. Stations started passing that charge on to their customers when cut-throat pricing dropped profits to near zero. Started out as 3-4 cents off for cash. Now it's more like 5-10 cents, and frankly, I'm not sure that covers the transaction fees because the fees are percentage and with the cost of fuel at $4 a gallon, 3% is 12 cents and 4% is 16 cents.

Craig yer right in your math, and generally I'd agree with you.
But the volume these places do in cc business is staggering and since they always have a card to swipe they get much better than 3-4%! More like 1 to 1-1/2%! I can get 3-1/2 to 4 % on less than $10,000 a month average on "high risk rate" (because we don't ever have the card to swipe!) But at the same time this is exactly why we don't accept credit cards pay me cash or check and if the bank won't take the check the Sheriff will! (only bad check we ever had was on a church from St. Louis and they finally paid up in order to avoid prosecution and a collection report.)
Again YMMV
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
gus
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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2010, 05:05:41 PM »

I don't use FJ unless forced. I've found their fuel prices average $0.05 higher than others and the RV pump seems to always be busy, I just go elsewhere.

Their $5 charge is reasonable, most RV parks I've used charge $10. $5 is reasonable to me but I won't buy fuel there.
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PD4107-152
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belfert
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« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2010, 05:34:52 PM »

The problem is most truck stops aren't offering a cash discount.  They charge a surcharge for credit cards since the price advertised is almost always the cash price. 

The agreements that merchants sign to take credit cards is that they cannot charge more to take credit cards.  However, they can advertise a price and then offer a cash discount.  My understanding is that Flying J got in trouble with Visa because they advertised the cash price and then added a credit card surcharge.  Flying J did eventually start taking Visa again, but with some changes if I remember right.

I'm not sure why truck stops charge the cash price for credit for autos only.  Maybe they figure that most autos pay by credit card and they will lose the inside sales.  Most truckers I have ever known didn't pay by credit card.

I never pump out back with the trucks because I don't want to pay the credit card charge.  My credit card still gives 5% back on fuel purchases and they include truck stops.  (A trucker would quickly hit the $30,000 limit on the 5% cash back.)
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2010, 05:52:29 PM »

Are mixing up the commercial tax on diesel in some jurisdictions and a credit card surcharge?

Lots of places there is a tax difference between auto and truck diesel.

BK, I guess you have to estimate the charter high to protect yourself from rising fuel costs!

You may lose the charter today, and they'll come knocking moments before it runs as the competitor can't afford to run it...

hopefully!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
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« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2010, 06:09:57 PM »

Are mixing up the commercial tax on diesel in some jurisdictions and a credit card surcharge?

Lots of places there is a tax difference between auto and truck diesel.

I know about taxes but this is different.  Flying J and Loves both charge the cash price for credit card sales up front at the auto islands and also at the RV islands at Flying J.  I don't know how other truck stops handle it.  Taxes are a whole different matter.  I know Indiana charges no state tax at the pumps for trucks as they collect through IFTA.  Arizona has some wierd taxes too.  Most states charge the same taxes at the pump no matter who buys the fuel.

I stopped at a Flying J in Indiana on my maiden voyage home with the bus.  I pulled up to the truck pumps and then went to the fuel desk to be sure I could get taxed fuel.  The clerk said yes and turned on the pump.  When I went back inside and saw the other clerk she was none too happy I bought fuel and needed to pay the tax.  She said there was no way to charge the tax and made me sign some form acknowledging I bought fuel without paying the tax.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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Michael & Christi Hargis
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« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2010, 06:11:16 PM »

The Loves station in Yuma was $9.00 to Dump last weekend! and no discount when you fill up.  M&C
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Entertainers/BUSNUTS
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« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2010, 07:21:23 PM »

The truck stops that advertise two different diesel prices I always assumed meant that trucks had to pay the higher price for one of their special trucker credit systems.

The few times I stopped at truck pumps I kept getting credit card stuff on the pump screen for credit cards I never heard of. Since I had none of these it wouldn't sell me fuel on credit. I left and don't use truck pumps at all anymore.

I use auto or RV pumps only and always get the lower diesel price with my Master Card.
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PD4107-152
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luvrbus
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« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2010, 08:15:48 PM »

Flying J in AZ doesn't charge you extra for credit cards used my Visa today for 215.00 worth of fuel and dumped my tanks in Phoenix at no charge one reason I use Flying J and not Loves and yes guys I did use the RV pump and saved a few bucks


good luck
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« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2010, 08:25:20 PM »

Clifford, they have never charged extra for credit cards at the RV pumps.  Only at the truck pumps.

The cash price is the one they always advertise on the signs unless they changed that recently.

Here is a quote from Flying J's website:

Cash price is a 6 cent/gallon discount from credit card/regular price in the US and 3 cent/liter price discount in Canada. Cash price applies when paying for diesel fuel with cash or cash equivalent. Diesel prices are subject to change without notice. The price posted is not guaranteed for any period of time.

 **
 Indiana - Assumes no sales tax with ICC# (6% State Sales Tax not included).
Oregon - Assumes no state tax with PUC# (.24 cents).

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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
johns4104s
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« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2010, 08:54:35 AM »

I find FJ to be great as the fuel at the RV island is same as cash, no dump charges to date and up front were they let the RV,s park always feels safe.

As for the sale of FJ to Pilot that is still up in the air.

But I do believe Denny's is now taking over all the FJ restaurants.

John
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Sean
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« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2010, 09:53:26 AM »

... But I do believe Denny's is now taking over all the FJ restaurants. ...


Proposed, pending approval of the bankruptcy court, scheduled for March 23rd:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-04/philly-papers-flying-j-tavern-nortel-spansion-bankruptcy.html

More discussion:

http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/the-truck-stops-here/91626-pilots-plans-for-flying-j-restaurants.html

(Old) discussion of the merger of Pilot and Flying-J truck stop operations:

http://www.truckstopusa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26930

There is a forum for everything on the Internet.  If you think we're chatty about FJ over here, just surf around the long-haul trucker forums for a little bit to get a different perspective.

For those that don't follow him, Nick Russell posted a blog entry about the brouhaha on his Gypsy Journal blog:

http://gypsyjournal.net/blog/2010/03/15/how-dare-they/

somehow, our blog managed to get mentioned in there, too, even though we have not discussed the FJ dump situation.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 09:55:03 AM by Sean » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2010, 10:43:07 AM »

Did the Flying J sale of the truck stops not include the restaurants?  I'm wondering why they would even mention this to the bankruptcy court if Pilot now owns the truck stops?

Maybe Denny's will be a step up in quality of the cuisine.  We stopped at a Flying J and ate breakfast once and it wasn't that great.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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