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Author Topic: To all the POs out there. WHY???? WHY DID YOU DO IT THAT WAY???? WHY?????  (Read 3321 times)
zubzub
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« on: March 14, 2010, 06:27:11 AM »

I am in shock at all the BS wiring done on my bus.



When I got the bus I just ran extension cords to the back and ran all the major controls through those, so this week since I was replacing the drivers seat it was time to work on the wiring



There have been so many weird unnecessary changes it drives me crazy, after awhile I just pulled all the haywire bypasses, 'til I was down to the original wiring.  Guess what, once I had fixed 1 bad ground wire almost everything was working again, certainly all the main engine controls.  Even the relay I thought was bad is working.

The bad ground was caused by a lousy splice...BTW remember to seal your splices otherwise they corrode and fail years later and some lousy SOB has to spend hours chasing wires etc...to find your sloppy work. 
  So again I ask WHY?Huh?


For those that like work in progress pics this is my old drivers seat.



and this is my almost new seat, pulled it from a wrecked transit, wasn't worn out like all the other transit seats, has 3 lumbar air controls as well.



temporarily installed, seems low but that's because it's not aired up.

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Damn Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2010, 06:47:46 AM »

lol...I feel your pain. I've asked myself that same question on just about everything I buy from houses to cars and have come to the conclusion that most people think with their wallets and not their brains or their just plain lazy. Here's a pic of one thing I found while converting my previous coach. It was a 4104 also.
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2010, 07:53:43 AM »

Now you know why we're called "Bus Nuts"  Grin
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2010, 07:31:45 PM »

Zub,

Another thing to watch for is corroded lugs and nuts on the terminals and corroded wire from lugs for about the first inch or so of the wire. There is usually enough extra wire to cut out the corrosion. My 4104 had bunches of these.

I replaced a bunch of lugs, cleaned all the old ones and replaced the nuts with clean brass ones, then put a drop of Corrosion-X on each one.

Yankee,

This is an approved busnut repair/mod!! Some BN have used rubber hose and hose clamps, yours is a much stronger version with those cable clamps!!
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Jeremy
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 04:01:59 AM »

Regardless of any poor repairs done by previous owners, the wiring shown in the first photo surely needs completely ripping out and completely renewing anyway - chasing individual bad grounds and connections seems a little pointless in 50-year-old wiring like that, other than just as a temporary measure before you get around to dealing with the whole lot properly.

Just my opinion, but I'm sure I couldn't contemplate running power through a rat's nest such as that for any length of time, and certainly not using the vehicle on the road with the wiring in that state.

Jeremy
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zubzub
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 04:46:09 AM »

Oh Jeremy, you have now gone from a rat's nest to a wasps nest.   There are more than a few of us using and driving buses with the original wiring intact.  When I first got my bus I presumed that I would need to re wire everything, but as I get deeper into it, much of the original wiring is still intact, not crumbling (I have a northern bus so lessheat degradation) and the combo rubber sheathing with cloth overlay is standing up nicely.  So after all I will be using the original wiring, and once I have it sorted, it will be safe and reliable. 
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 04:50:15 PM »

Buying any bus that has already been converted will have it's head scratching moments. Then top it off by the fact that many of the busses are older than the owners (eg.  insert name here  Cheesy) and you're gonna find a lot of strange things especially when it comes to wiring. Everytime I get deeper into some of those issues I go WTF! My latest was 16 gauge wire to the Suburban heater. It pulls 8.5 amps according to the book and had melted the wires together. I was surprised when I found out it had never even burned the paint off the heating unit yet.
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 07:06:28 PM »

Easy for you to say Jeremy, with an '87. If you had a '54 you might have an entirely different perspective!!

Ripping all the wiring out and replacing it is a monumental job, life is too short for that and the chances of screwing it up are great. Just running all that wire 35'+ would be a nightmare. No thanks.

That panel looked like a rat's nest even when new!! There is another smaller one almost like it at the rear!!

Neat is nice but looks really don't count in electricity, who is going to see it? The little electrons don't know the difference and don't care!

I'm with Zub on this one.
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 07:46:02 PM »

Jeremy, there's a reason that most from the old sod run screaming to the airport for home once they have been introduced to the methods of engagement here in the Transportation industry in North America...

Whether it is our wiring or our disinterest in embracing disc brakes on the heavy stuff....

oh well.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 08:12:20 PM »

Easy for you to say Jeremy, with an '87. If you had a '54 you might have an entirely different perspective!!

I suspect an older bus is easier to rewire than a newer bus.  My bus is a 1995 and the wiring bundle front to rear is about as big around as my wrist if not bigger!  The older buses don't need near so many wires to make them run.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Jeremy
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2010, 03:23:43 AM »

Well, I guess I'm out-voted...but not convinced. And I suspect the electrons do care, and haven't been convinced either.

Jeremy

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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 06:01:36 AM »

This is what the panel looked like when new
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 07:22:55 AM »

Zub,

The best thing about having a "PO" is that if someone says "Who did that"

It was the PO of course...... Wink

Cliff
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zubzub
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2010, 10:24:32 AM »

That's a good point Cliff.  Maybe it almost makes up for all the work, which to be fair, there has been a lot of maintenance done on this bus over the years, in fact the mechanicals are all in good fettle, I guess the mythical PO of this bus just couldn't handle all the do garn new fangled wiring on this modern (1953) bus.
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2010, 07:10:24 PM »

This is what the panel looked like when new



That is the wiring in the picture,  Kinda like that burger in the picture doesn't look like the one you get. Wink  Cheesy
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2010, 07:33:35 PM »

it really is not that bad, a few proper connectors and some tie wraps and it will be fine.
i have seen much worse.
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Cary and Don
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2010, 07:48:58 PM »

One thing we have done when changing the wiring is documenting all the changes.  There is a sheet in our manual that lists every change to every junction post, relay, or breaker.  It tells where that new color coded wire goes and what it does.  We also had to figure out what some idiot did.  We have made quite a few changes and repairs over the years.  It is impossible to remember all of them.

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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2010, 10:03:49 PM »

I have my own special "Owner's Manual" that I write as I work on the bus.

with wiring diagrams and pictures if necessary.

I refer back to it when I look at something that I can clearly see was done by me but I don't understand why.

I feel like the guy in Memento the movie --- good short term memory but not always so good with the history of what I did and why.

Melbo
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2010, 06:14:05 AM »

I've watched this crying towel express for the last couple of days!  I guess you could have bought a new bus without problems.........oh wait!.........that's to expensive,  I'm also sure no one was held at gunpoint and forced to buy their bus.........you knew what you were buying when you purchased it........if you didn't well............easy come easy go!   Like many other financially distressed busnuts, we purchased what we did with the thought of getting a bus "cheap", with cheap comes the work envolved with restoring these finely engineered beasts!  If it was easy women would be doing it...........oh wait.......where is divineright?................have a great day and enjoy life.........sorry Anja and other Ladies no disrespect meant........some of these "he men" need to man up! Roll Eyes   
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Pat

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JackConrad
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2010, 07:26:12 AM »

Heck, for me, rebuilding everything is as much fun as converting it or using it. Besides, that keeps me off the streets and out of the bars.  LOL  Jack
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2010, 09:44:06 AM »

Amen Jack! Grin
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Pat

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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2010, 10:48:50 AM »

What I enjoyed about repairing things (a never ending job probably  Cheesy) is the confidence I have in the ole girl now and knowing that I can fix most anything on it besides possibly the engine and tranny. They really are built well and are simple.... just big! I also enjoy listening to the guys with the new mega buck S&S rigs and all their problems. Beating these things up and down the road is hard on some of the rv internal components and simpler is better.
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2010, 02:41:29 PM »

When we bought our Dina, it had been completely rewired with new freightliner wiring, complete with diagram. It is the only reason we got it. As some may know, this was one of the big problems with a Dina. I take no offense about the referral of women, but just remember the saying, behind every great man, is an even greater woman. Well, maybe I embellished the saying a little,  Grin but come on guys, you know it is true. Wink
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