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Author Topic: Converting to spin-on fuel filters  (Read 2629 times)
Fredward
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« on: March 15, 2010, 11:31:24 AM »

Does anybody know the NAPA part number for the spin on filter base that I need to convert my 8V71 MC-5 from canister type fuel filters to spin on? I'm getting ready to head out in a few weeks and while I do my annual filter change, I figure I might as well go to the spin on style. Looks like I can just bolt them right on where the canister ones are located now. I will try cross referencing the spin on numbers from the cartridge style and then see what the correct base is.

Are primary and secondary the same base?

FRed
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Fred Thomson
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 11:47:13 AM »

Fred, 
5148023 for primary
5148171 for secondary  DD numbers Napa can cross it over


good luck
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JohnEd
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 12:02:35 PM »

I will go out on a limb here and say that the the reason toconvert is that cannister is more trouble to change.  How do they compare in terms of filter area, cost, and does the cannister make priming any easier?

Thanks,
John
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bryanhes
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 01:41:06 PM »

In talking to a bus charter owner he said he preferred the cartridge type. Reason being that you could drain easily to check for water in the fuel. I know they make the spin on with a drain valve but have heard they are a bit more expensive. I just opted to keep the cartridge for now unless there is a bigger benefit to spin on I am unaware of. Which could be  Undecided

Bryan
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Fredward
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 02:12:04 PM »

I've got an electric fuel pump plumbed in for priming so the only reason to get away from the canisters for me is the mess. I helped a buddy bring an Eagle home last fall and we had to change filters a few times and the spin ons are way easier than the canisters and easy to prime because you just fill them up and screw them on.

I'll see how much it all costs at NAPA. I've got the bus sitting in the shop right now and figured it would be an easy project with measureable benefit..........

Of course, if it ain't broke; why fix it.................   Fred
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Fred Thomson
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 03:50:04 PM »

Spin ons are more readily available at truck stops.
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 04:31:59 PM »

Fred, I would sure consider the Fuel Pro 382 (https://www.davcotec.com/DFP-_fp382.htm).  Good water separator, you can see when to change filter, self priming, etc.  Most new trucks have them in place of the two spin-on filters.  You can get them at a DD dealer, truck dealer and the E place.  It is a bit pricey, but I would not consider going back to spin-on filters.

Jim
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 04:34:28 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
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Lin
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 04:53:41 PM »

Jim.

When you say they use it instead of two spin-ons do you mean it replaces both the primary and secondary filters?  How easy are they to install?
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 05:01:44 PM »

Lin, the recommended installation is to eliminate both filters and plumb the outlet of the filter directly to the pump and then the outlet of the pump directly to the injector inlet connection.  Very easy to install if you can find a location.  Two bolt and then the hose connections.  They recommend installing the filter above the fuel level in the tank.  That always seemed strange to me, but it works great.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 06:58:42 PM »

I didn't realize there were internal canister type filters?

My 4104 primary filter is a stacked disc type which only requires flushing out with solvent and reinstalling, a very neat setup and it has a drain valve. It is a bit messier than a spin on, but not much.

My secondary is a spin on, wish it was also a stacked disc. I think the original was.
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dougyes
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 08:02:59 PM »

We changed all our buses to Fuel Pro. They are stock on the new MCI's.
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Lin
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2010, 08:11:55 PM »

So in the installation, you are basically just bypassing the secondary filter.  The assumption then would be that one pass through it is as good as two passes with standard filter.
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 09:22:28 PM »

Lin, probably words, but you eliminate both filters.  You may be saying that you bypass the secondary filter in terms of plumbing, but both filters are gone. 

The Fuel Pro, as dougyes, noted are pretty much standard for most big diesel engines from what I can tell. 

It is neat to be able to see the quality of your fuel and be able to observe when a filter change is needed.  Pretty easy to change the filter as well.  Almost no chance to loose the prime.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
gumpy
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2010, 10:47:19 PM »

Does anybody know the NAPA part number for the spin on filter base that I need to convert my 8V71 MC-5 from canister type fuel filters to spin on? I'm getting ready to head out in a few weeks and while I do my annual filter change, I figure I might as well go to the spin on style. Looks like I can just bolt them right on where the canister ones are located now. I will try cross referencing the spin on numbers from the cartridge style and then see what the correct base is.

Are primary and secondary the same base?

FRed

Fred,

Before you go spending a bunch of money on those filter bases, you might want to come see me.  I think I still have the set that I took off my bus, and maybe even a few filters to go with them.  They should bolt right up to your 5.

I'll make you are VERY good deal on them.   Roll Eyes

craig

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JackConrad
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2010, 04:53:21 AM »

The FuelPro is also a great diagnostic tool. If you are loosing power, look at the filter. If the fuel is up to the "change filter" line, you have a plugged filter, if the fuel in the clear bowl in black, you have algae in your fuel, if you see air bubbels, you have a leak and are sucking air in the supply line, if no fuel in bowl  you have a blockage or are out of fuel.  Jack
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bryanhes
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2010, 08:04:50 AM »

Jim,

Do you have the heated or unheated model? I am guessing for where I am the heated model would not be necessary.

Bryan
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luvrbus
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2010, 08:26:43 AM »

The mileage we put on our buses can you justify the cost of a Fuel Pro those are not trouble free I had the units on some equipment and the filters get a little costly when you get a bad batch of fuel like we did some time and I could never see where the Fuel Pro saved me any money.
Fwiw I have new one in the box a heated one for 12v and I never installed it on my Eagle I will make somebody a good deal on.
I change my fuel filters every 20,000 miles cost me 11 bucks for both  



good luck
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 08:31:53 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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JohnEd
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2010, 09:28:37 AM »

Clifford,

Are you using the cartridge filters?  Yours seems like the very best deal.  That is the KISS decision, right?

Is there a glass sight bowl that can be installed so I could monitor for algae and air.  I would think that air bubbles would shut the engine down.  "Empty" glass would be some great info.

Thanks,

John
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2010, 12:10:36 PM »

Bryan, I did not get the heated unit.  Most of our tanks are exposed to the bay in some way, and my bays stay pretty warm, since I leave the heat in the bus on all winter (almost impossible to winterize the water system and we normally use the bus during the winter months).  I got the least expensive one.

Clifford, I am surprised at the Fuel Pro cost comment.  The replacement filter sources are:

DD: 23521528
Donaldson: P550467
NAPA:  3651XE
Wix: 33651XE

All are 7 micron filters.  I saw prices that were all less than $20 and some down to less than $15.  Recall that you only need one filter.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2010, 12:55:41 PM »

Jim, is that a walk in price like from Cummins, DD and Napa when those first hit the market I was paying 45 bucks each and the dealers were the only place you could buy one, then sure they say it will last as long as 2 regular filters but it will take a long time to recoup the cost.
If I had a electronic engine I probably would use one with the heat the that common rail engine produces in the fuel but with my old MUI 892  11 bucks for a set of spin on filters works for me and I can buy the 3118 and 3120 in a drug store  plus if I drop a filter no big deal and I don't have to wait 2 days for a new cover for 80 bucks. I don't think 7 micron will work on a V892 my book and service bulletin call for 5 or less on the secondary   

good luck
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Lin
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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2010, 01:42:15 PM »

Although the Fuel Pro is not something that would be on the top of my priority list, I do like the idea of a water separator.  This may be of less interest to those that travel a lot and are constantly moving fuel through the system.  But for those that have a tendency to sit for long periods of time, I would guess there could be condensate building in the tank.  I suppose I could look into other water separator options too.
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2010, 04:19:40 PM »

Clifford, I found a receipt from Stewart Stevenson and I paid $7.67 in June of '07.  I was quite surprised at that cost.  That was for part number 23521528.  I have bought a couple of more since then, but can't find the receipt.

As a side note, at the first few Bus Conversion Magazine rallies, a fellow by the name of Mike Meloche gave some great seminars on two stoke engines.  He really knew his stuff and was a good presenter.  He and I got to be friends and did a lot of talking about Detroit Diesel stuff.  Obviously, part of his being there was to push DD product including Reliabuilt engines.  At one of his presentations he talked about aftermarket parts that he recommended.  After the presentation, I asked him what one product he thought was a good value, and his quick reply was the Fuel Pro 382. 

I tired to track him down a few years ago, and I think he was forced into an early retirement (sounded familiar to me Angry). 

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2010, 04:41:58 PM »

I got Mikes phone number and address he lives in Mesa now he was living in Utah working for Smiths till last year.Fwiw I went and looked at the manuals on my off road trucks and they were the dual system in 2001.  

good luck
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DaveG
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2010, 07:43:41 PM »

Something to keep in mind here, it was touched on lightly but should be brought to light, is that electronic engines need a different filter rating (microns) then mechanical engines.
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Fredward
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2010, 08:04:37 PM »

Well, Craig,
I have not had any problems with anything I've gotten from you yet so this sounds like a plan to me. I'll take you up on it.

I'm good to go with the canisters for this trip, but would like to change over sometime this spring. The trip from Alabama with the Eagle taught me the value of spin on filters.
Fred
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Fred Thomson
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2010, 05:17:44 AM »

Well, Craig,
I have not had any problems with anything I've gotten from you yet so this sounds like a plan to me. I'll take you up on it.

I'm good to go with the canisters for this trip, but would like to change over sometime this spring. The trip from Alabama with the Eagle taught me the value of spin on filters.
Fred

I'll dig them out of the clutter in the garage and make sure I still have them. The mind plays tricks on me from time to time, but I'm pretty sure they're still out there.

I'll let you know for sure in the next few days.

craig
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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2010, 06:54:07 AM »

Sorry about this drift in this thread, but it looks like it has about run its course.

Clifford, I am sure glad to hear that you have a contact for Mike.  The next time we chat, I will get his contact information.

Have you left AZ yet?  We will be in Albuquerque next week for the FMCA.  Maybe I can pick up the turbo?

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2010, 07:05:22 AM »

Jim, I'll be at Jim's on Monday Tom had to change the turbine wheel and machine the housing but it is good to go now looks like a new one.
I have the old wheel looks like something got in it. 


good luck
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