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Author Topic: Alternative fuels  (Read 7360 times)
cody
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 03:46:43 PM »

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« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 09:41:27 PM by cody » Logged
HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2010, 04:17:16 PM »

There are several requests to sticky this thread for a while.  The moderating team is discussing it.  Critical to that decision is whether it can be discussed respectfully.  Alternative fuels are almost a religion to some and discussions quickly become arguments that end up in insults to each other's intelligence.  If we can avoid that, then I think a very good thread could emerge.

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cody
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2010, 04:28:33 PM »

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Just Dallas
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2010, 04:29:14 PM »

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« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 03:02:06 AM by Now Just Dallas » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2010, 05:59:22 PM »

Put these topics on their own tab & let it be known that name calling will be edited out with any other postings that aren't in line with the discussion.
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2010, 06:21:08 PM »

Dallas, very good idea!

My thought would be to put it in it's own board, just like Spare Tire, Off Topic, Final Arrival, etc.
Alternative fuels are important to all of us, more to some than others, but still important.
The one thing that has to go are the ego's.. they have no place in a serious discussion of any kind!

There are several requests to sticky this thread for a while.  The moderating team is discussing it.  Critical to that decision is whether it can be discussed respectfully.  Alternative fuels are almost a religion to some and discussions quickly become arguments that end up in insults to each other's intelligence.  If we can avoid that, then I think a very good thread could emerge.


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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2010, 07:59:10 PM »

I'll second the motion by Paul that we accept Dallas' idea.

When I first suggested this I intended that people that are active in this would contribute but I think, on reflection, that everyone will have a comment or anecdote....and they should.

John
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2010, 05:40:30 AM »

I'll second the motion by Paul that we accept Dallas' idea.

When I first suggested this I intended that people that are active in this would contribute but I think, on reflection, that everyone will have a comment or anecdote....and they should.

John


Well then lets have some contribution, I will start.  Introducing the Wano Heat Exchanger.  Total cost thus far is $14.00 and a 3x36 inch piece of square tubing.  This is just the beginning but I will have it done before the weekend is out.  I would have stayed in the barn but the dern skeeters are terrible already.  These aint no regular mesquito either.  These are them little bitty coastal ones that can get on you without you knowing and leave an itchin bump.  The little beggers come out right at about dark.

Oh yeah!! Back to the Wano Heat Exchanger.  I cut the square tube at 36 inches.  I bought 1/2 black iron pipe and the elbows.  Rather than waste money on close nipples I opted to weld the elbows together.  Turns out it was the right choice becuase they barely fit being welded together.  For the third return in the pipe I will have to cut the elbows threads off and then weld them together because they will not fit at the angle they will have to go in the tube.  More photos will follow when I get it done.



« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 05:42:29 AM by wal1809 » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2010, 06:03:21 AM »

Alright the square tube is a water jacket that will rob water from the engine.  The tubing will have a water inlet and outlet.  Bringing water in to one end and heating the 1/2 pipe inside and out the other to go back to the engine.  Of course both ends of the square tube will have a welded in place plate.  The black pipe will go through on plate and run the 36 inch length of the tube where it will then do a uturn and go back where it started, again another uturn.  It will then run another 36 inches and exit through the plate welded on the other end.  That is 36 total inches x 3 passes =108 inches of travel through 180 degree water.

I am not sure yet if this will achieve oil temps at 180 degrees or not.  I do often times go hunting where it is cold.  Some of you guys might laugh but 10 to 15 degrees is freakin cold for a south Texas boy.  Last year it was 15 degrees in Ponca City OK.  When I watered the dogs it took about 15 to 20 minutes to freeze their water bowls solid.  So with these extreme cold conditions I will often times visit I intend to run the heated oil from the Wano Heat Exchanger up to a heated filter.  Whether it be heated by water or electricity.  

Divinerightstrip turned me onto a nice filter set up that runs off of 12V.  It is $300 and some change with shipping added on.  I am mostly not an off the shelf kind of guy.  Guns yes I like off the shelf, anything else I like to make or recover from a junk yard.  So with that being said does anyone have a water heated filter they want to sell or donate to the green cause.  I call it the "Green Cause" = Cause I don't want to spend a lot of money Grin.

If you have questions then post away.  It will all be clearer towards the end.  The kewlest thing about engineering something like this is I am right no matter what happens.  Heat exchangers are old hat I know.  But if I like it and it does what I need it to do then I can do anything I want.  That is the beauty with alternative fuels.  

Oh and I really did not want to get into this because I am guilty.  I started this thread with ALTERNATIVE FUELS.  I call it that because not everyone understands my humor.  From the pump diesel in my opinion is actually the alternative fuel here.  We have just been programmed to think otherwise.  When R. Diesel first made the diesel engine he put in gasoline.  It damaged the engine, I think it actually blew up.  He had to find something else and decided upon sunflower oil.  It ran and ran good.  So we are not really traveling into the future with what we now call alternative fuel, we are taking a history trtip and going back in time.

So now that I got that off my chest yall carry on and tease me about my alternative fuelstyle Shocked Grin
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 06:27:27 AM by wal1809 » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2010, 06:53:10 AM »

I would like to know what the properties of WVO are compared to diesel fuel like the flash point, BTU and weight some of this stuff has to be taken in consideration I would think.
DD has always had a strict requirement for fuels in the 2 strokes


good luck
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 07:10:53 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2010, 07:52:48 AM »

I would like to know what the properties of WVO are compared to diesel fuel like the flash point, BTU and weight some of this stuff has to be taken in consideration I would think.
DD has always had a strict requirement for fuels in the 2 strokes


good luck

Good Morning Luvrbus,  Specific gravity weight and viscosity is so close to the same there is essentially no difference, when converted to bioD or the WVO is heated to 180 degrees.  I will get back to you on the flashpoint thing here ina minute, I got to go find it.
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wal1809
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2010, 08:21:54 AM »

Biodiesel has better lubricating properties and much higher cetane ratings than today's lower sulfur diesel fuels. Biodiesel addition reduces fuel system wear,[26] and in low levels in high pressure systems increases the life of the fuel injection equipment that relies on the fuel for its lubrication. Depending on the engine, this might include high pressure injection pumps, pump injectors (also called unit injectors) and fuel injectors.

 
Older diesel Mercedes are popular for running on biodiesel.The calorific value of biodiesel is about 37.27 MJ/L.[27] This is 9% lower than regular Number 2 petrodiesel. Variations in biodiesel energy density is more dependent on the feedstock used than the production process. Still these variations are less than for petrodiesel.[28] It has been claimed biodiesel gives better lubricity and more complete combustion thus increasing the engine energy output and partially compensating for the higher energy density of petrodiesel.[29]

Biodiesel is a liquid which varies in color between golden and dark brown depending on the production feedstock. It is immiscible with water, has a high boiling point and low vapor pressure. *The flash point of biodiesel (>130 C, >266 F)[30] is significantly higher than that of petroleum diesel (64 C, 147 F) or gasoline (−45 C, -52 F). Biodiesel has a density of ~ 0.88 g/cm, less than that of water.

Biodiesel has virtually no sulfur content, and it is often used as an additive to Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel.

This I got styraight from WIKIpedia                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel


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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2010, 08:29:09 AM »

Bear with me here Wayne I am a little slow sometimes on these things but are we talking about WVO or Bio fuel I buy a little bio fuel in Texas from time to time 


good luck
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2010, 08:34:52 AM »

Not a problem Sir.  I do know tihs.  If yall have a dirty tank, lines or anything then just a run a tank of bioD in it.  That dirt from 1975 will hit that filter like a duck to a bug.  If you decide to do this I would get at least 2 filters on the bus for a "Just in case" moment.  It is a solvent and it will eat the junk out of the tank.  It will clean the injectors and lubricate everything very well.

I always add either sump oil, which has been run over a magnet and filtered, or some additive oil to the tank.  It might not be doing anything extra I don't know.  It does go to ease my mind that the IPs and internal parts are getting well lubricated from time to time.
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2010, 10:27:51 AM »

    "Specific gravity weight and viscosity is so close to the same there is essentially no difference, when converted to bioD or the WVO is heated to 180 degrees."


It is my understanding that WVO at 180 Deg. is still 6 times thicker than diesel.
I think I read that from a link on the Journey to Forever website.


I just returned home from a 5938 mile trip, I ran WVO for about 1500 of those miles.
This was about 1/4 of my fuel bill. Last year it was about 1/3.
It looks like next year I will have to run more oil because the price of fuel will be much higher.
I wish I could carry more oil with me but I weighed full when I left home and I was 27,150 lbs.
The gross weight of this bus 32,600.
1975 Crown two axel 6-71N
For many of us $4 a gallon diesel is not an option.
Jerry

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