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Author Topic: Alternative fuels  (Read 7512 times)
JohnEd
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« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2010, 11:01:16 PM »

Wal,

You didn't say anything about all the COPPER LINES that you replaced because Bio eats copper and the stuff that remains causes the bio to mutate into something bad.  It also has a bad relationship with galvanized.  You can go cheap with galvanized instead of black iron if you simply rinse off the galvanize coating with Ospho.  When you screw those pipes together you also must us the pipe dope that is rated for "fuel".  It stands up to Bio but the regular dope FAILS after a time.

Sorry if you knew all this.

You are correct, I had you pegged as being much older and experienced.  There is roughly a generation between the two of you. 

John
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 11:02:50 PM by JohnEd » Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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cody
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« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2010, 02:23:34 AM »

This reminds me of a story told about the three mouseketeers, Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, and Thomas Edison, they were all battleing personal demons and met at a restaraurt that happened to have a reporter for the detroit free press sitting at the next table, thomas edison, of course related his version of how he now had thousands of ways to not make a light bulb work well safely tucked into his dismal swamp and firestone was still battling with rubber and the possible improvements of it that were still critical to figure out when henry ford commented that confusion seemed to be his only ally to fall back on but it seemed that he was loosing his ability to bring up the necessary and needed amounts of dementia when he wanted it for clear thinking lol.  My great uncle was that reporter and he swears by the story, it seems that if even great thinkers like that were sometimes stuck deep in a boondoggle or quagmire of mental disorganization how can the rest of us think we can easily run thru the problems that we encounter, that's what makes it fun I guess.  I often think of how the three contributors made it possible for the many inventions and improvements that they brought about, how if one of them had failed it would have made the road so much harder for the others. we're all dependant on each of us contributing one small piece to the puzzle, nobody has the whole picture but with each small piece added it begins to make sence.
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NeoplanAN440
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1995 MCI 102 D3 running WVO Neoplan AN440




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« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2010, 11:25:37 AM »

Nice work!!

im running WVO in all my vehicles and Generators for almost 10 years now.
went trough the normal up and downs,but never any engine problems!
im still having trouble to post pics,to show my setup.

im using poly tanks as storage tanks on my bus.i heat only a 17 gallon aluminum surge tank via hot fox and 30 plate exchanger.i found that heating and cooling large amounts of wvo leads to a lot off condensation and sludge!
the surge tank has level sensors to automatic refill from the main tanks.i also can override the system and
mix diesel into the tank,so i have a lower ratio on start up.

in germany we used single tank systems,but we also had svo clean from the pump.
here i run all on two tanks!

i carry 250 gallons wvo in the bus and up to 500 in my trailer,depending on the trip im doing!!
i have an extral clean diesel small tank for the espars and the webasto furnace!


where in tx are you located???
im coming to austin and fort worth in the next weeks ,so maybe we can exchange ideas!!
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Len Silva
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« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2010, 11:57:42 AM »

This reminds me of a story told about the three mouseketeers, Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, and Thomas Edison, they were all battleing personal demons and met at a restaraurt that happened to have a reporter for the detroit free press sitting at the next table, thomas edison, of course related his version of how he now had thousands of ways to not make a light bulb work well safely tucked into his dismal swamp and firestone was still battling with rubber and the possible improvements of it that were still critical to figure out when henry ford commented that confusion seemed to be his only ally to fall back on but it seemed that he was loosing his ability to bring up the necessary and needed amounts of dementia when he wanted it for clear thinking lol.  My great uncle was that reporter and he swears by the story, it seems that if even great thinkers like that were sometimes stuck deep in a boondoggle or quagmire of mental disorganization how can the rest of us think we can easily run thru the problems that we encounter, that's what makes it fun I guess.  I often think of how the three contributors made it possible for the many inventions and improvements that they brought about, how if one of them had failed it would have made the road so much harder for the others. we're all dependant on each of us contributing one small piece to the puzzle, nobody has the whole picture but with each small piece added it begins to make sence.

And..... never underestimate the contributions of those who don't know.  I will never forget the humbling experience when three of us "Supertechs" struggled for what seemed like days, miles of schematics spread all over the place, mountains of test equipment, jumpers and cords all over the place, when the new kid walks in.  "Did you check the fuse?"  "Well, of course we checked the fuse, do you think we are all stupid?"........
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wal1809
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« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2010, 12:29:28 PM »

Wal,

You didn't say anything about all the COPPER LINES that you replaced because Bio eats copper and the stuff that remains causes the bio to mutate into something bad.  It also has a bad relationship with galvanized.  You can go cheap with galvanized instead of black iron if you simply rinse off the galvanize coating with Ospho.  When you screw those pipes together you also must us the pipe dope that is rated for "fuel".  It stands up to Bio but the regular dope FAILS after a time.

Sorry if you knew all this.

You are correct, I had you pegged as being much older and experienced.  There is roughly a generation between the two of you. 

John

In my processor I used black iron.  Some parts were galvenized due to time costraints and lack of selection.  I do live in the sticks you know.  The only copper I use is on the methoxide injection from the methoxide mixer to the processor.

So far as the heat exchanger it got scrapped.  I got a call from Charlie Davidson who has a stainless one for sale at a good price.  So I redirected my work attentions to some more needy projectsm, like the $%^ #$%^ tractor.

So far as pipe dope I used white tape in the beginning.  I heard of some leak stories and when I broke the system down the second and third time I went back with yellow tape.  I have had no problems to date with yellow tape.
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wal1809
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« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2010, 12:30:25 PM »

Nice work!!

im running WVO in all my vehicles and Generators for almost 10 years now.
went trough the normal up and downs,but never any engine problems!
im still having trouble to post pics,to show my setup.

im using poly tanks as storage tanks on my bus.i heat only a 17 gallon aluminum surge tank via hot fox and 30 plate exchanger.i found that heating and cooling large amounts of wvo leads to a lot off condensation and sludge!
the surge tank has level sensors to automatic refill from the main tanks.i also can override the system and
mix diesel into the tank,so i have a lower ratio on start up.

I am 2 hours east of Austin.  I got to run to a call but PM me when you know your going to be here.

in germany we used single tank systems,but we also had svo clean from the pump.
here i run all on two tanks!

i carry 250 gallons wvo in the bus and up to 500 in my trailer,depending on the trip im doing!!
i have an extral clean diesel small tank for the espars and the webasto furnace!


where in tx are you located???
im coming to austin and fort worth in the next weeks ,so maybe we can exchange ideas!!
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
divinerightstrip
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« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2010, 03:28:26 PM »

I guess I missed most of that.  What confuses me is why she wouldn't offer these clarifications on her own behalf.  She is anything BUT lacking in com skills. She seems to have  a pretty good grip on a whole host of other subjects as well and given her age that is even more impressive. Maybe she likes it but I am not fond of people explaining what I really meant.  Sure do value the spirit of support though.

John,
Sorry to not have seen this sooner! If I didn't limit my internet time, I'd never get my school work or my real work done! I wasn't ignoring or avoiding the question, I just only get on this forum briefly every now and then. Smiley

To fully answer your question, peanut oil is not a great oil for either WVO or biodiesel use. This is because, at least for me living in New England, the gelling temp of peanut oil is rather high compared to other oils, so it really only makes a decent summer fuel. Also, the acidity of the peanut oil interferes with the neutralization reaction of the biodiesel process. Especially if you are new to making fuel, it can really mess you up. It's funny, if you google "peanut oil" and look for alternative fuel stuff, you'll find all sorts of information about how Rudolf Diesel ran his first ever diesel engine off of peanut oil... does anyone believe this?
Not sure I do. Tongue
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The Bus Girl
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« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2010, 03:36:20 PM »

I commend DRT because she is of the generation behind mine.  The next to take the gauntlet and run with it excitedly.  I know of only a very small percentage in that he group that has taken on the challenge.  Sure we can find it out there on google.  I am sure if I googles long enough o could find a bilingual elephant that retrieves ducks.  So to me DRT is kewl.

well thank you. Smiley *beams*

My wife and I also made a batch of soap with the glycerin.  The bar soap is amazing.  It will get you sqeaky clean.  When my clothes get stains, even ink stained I cut up a piece of he bar soap and soak it into the stain.  Works wonders.

I can’t believe you actually make soap with your leftovers! AWESOME!
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The Bus Girl
wal1809
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« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2010, 05:20:51 PM »

Making the soap was really easy.  I was going to build a heAted tank so I could drive off the left over methanol and pour into wooden flats from there.  With 4x8 sheets of plywood with a lip around the edge I could easily make 1000 bars in one day.  Sell them for a dollar a bar and make my methanol money back.  It is great soap too.
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2010, 08:14:02 PM »

Sooner or later the government will find a way to put road tax on our french fries because of you wvo users!! Grin
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JohnEd
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« Reply #70 on: March 22, 2010, 08:57:38 PM »

Rudolf Diesel ran his first ever diesel engine off of peanut oil... does anyone believe this?
Not sure I do. Tongue


Yes, I d...or did.  I have read about the "first ever D running on P nut oil many times thru the years.  I thought it was true.  I figured he must have had a good reason cause there aren't all that many P nut farms in Germany if you check their snack foods and candy.  Sunflower was the ticket.  P nut is a great skillet oil cause it doesn't scorch at such a low temp.  I figured it was some sort of super oil if it went high and low...no double ??  The spotty info I have is that it pours down to the 30's.

I'll ask around,
John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2010, 10:42:16 AM »

I have read both but I believe it was sunflowerer oil that he used to run the first one with success.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
NeoplanAN440
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« Reply #72 on: March 23, 2010, 05:12:02 PM »

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae161/NeoplanAN440/Neoplan/cummins090-1.jpg?t=1269389197
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wal1809
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« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2010, 08:37:30 PM »



Are you bringing your bus to Austin?  PM me when you get there I would like to arrange a meet.  I can bring our bus as well and maybe you can lend a pointer to a WVO newbie.  I am tying to get this thing up and going before April 16.  I am headed to Odessa, Texas to take my wife to a baby shower.  It would be nice to do it for the cost of a filter instead of the $430 in Dino diesel I figured on the calculator. 

I cleaned out the 100 gallon tank today.  Whew it was nasty.  The Dino had turned to varnish.  It took a couple if hours but I got it it super clean today.  The mounting base will
be completed by Friday.  He heat exchanger is on the way.  Fuel lines valves and switches and a heated filter is all I lack to be free of fuel pump tirrany.

As soon as I get the rest of the work on my tractor completed I can go pick up the 500 gallon propane tank.  I will turn it up on end and have a drain valve out the conical bottom.  A foot above that will be a decantur valve to gravity feed the bus through a 5 micron filter.

Of course the oil will have been filtered and dried before going to settle.  The tank will be painted black and should easily reach internal temps at around 140 degrees during the summer.  Lord knows that is the only good hing about Texas heat.  I ain't ready for it that is for sure.   
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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NeoplanAN440
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« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2010, 08:13:11 AM »

OOppps

i think i copied the wrong link!!
i try it again with some pics of the main conversion parts!!!

still working on it how to get the pics full size into the post??

if you have more questions,no problem!!

as for valves (hydraforce hydraulic solenoid valves)
heat exchanger 30 flat plate stainless,they are sold for wood stoves and hydronic heating systems.
also the transmission cooler on the cummins 6bt makes a perfect heat exchanger for wvo!!

just some ideas







http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae161/NeoplanAN440/Neoplan/
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