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Author Topic: $4.00 a Gallon Diesel  (Read 3693 times)
luvrbus
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« on: March 16, 2010, 07:40:06 PM »

Guy's just got off the phone with a diesel fuel futures seller he told me fuel will be 4 bucks + a gallon before Dec.
Sun Oil has shutdown the refinery in NJ and has the one in Tulsa for sale and it is off line and Valero has closed 1 in Delaware along with Chevron cutting production fuel is going up.
 I hate to make a few bucks this way but someone has to do it so I bought some fuel and propane today for future sale better keep the buses full.
I hope he is wrong but not too wrong lol  


good luck
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 07:43:08 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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cody
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2010, 08:01:18 PM »

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luvrbus
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2010, 08:15:35 PM »

Another thing I found out Cody is the EPA is lowering the sulfur contents on off road fuel to 15 ppm from 500 I believe they are heading for a tax on all fuel as they don't require the dyeing of off road fuel after July. 

good luck
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010, 08:22:12 PM »

I know gasoline here has been shooting up pretty fast the last few days.

I think it is reasonable to believe that the fuel prices of 2008 played a major role, perhaps even triggered the recession the US, and much of the world, is still reeling from.  As working people had to divert more of their funds to fuel, (transportation and heating), they had less disposable income and in many cases more trouble paying their mortgage.  Manufacturers were faced with higher costs at the same time that consumers had less to spend.

Now that the economy is already bouncing on the bottom and gasping for air, any doubts on what impact skyrocketing fuel prices will have now?

Maybe those poor impoverished oil refiners are hoping the govt. will bail them out. Roll Eyes
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cody
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 08:23:03 PM »

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Dreamscape
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 08:26:38 PM »

Oh well, we can't go anywhere anyway except for short trips. Guess that will have to do!  Cry
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 02:54:51 AM »

There was a piece on the TV here yesterday about fuel prices going up fast this year - £1.20 per litre by Easter and £1.25 by the summer. The way it was explained was that it was almost entirely due to the consequences of complicated financial fluctuations in the economy - put simply, exchange rate & taxation changes that are a direct result of the bank bail-out. The guy explaining it was trying very hard to make clear how the cost of the oil itself only makes a comparatively small contribution to the cost of the fuel at a petrol station (or 'taxation stations' as he called them). At a price of £1.20 a litre, £0.80 is duty apparently.

If it helps, £1.20 a litre is the equivalent of about $7.00 per gallon, and that includes converting to the smaller US gallons

Jeremy
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 09:17:00 AM »

$7 a gallon would end a lot of RV traveling here in the states. If you are dealing with that now, then what happens when it does go up like predicted? Jeremy, put your family and bus on a boat and get over here so you can at least go 2x as far on your money. How can people happily live under the huge tax burdens and high cost of living that so many in Europe deal with? Unfortunately, I think we are going to find out sooner than we want to (minus the happy part). We are watching our out of control government ram itself down our unwilling throats. My ancestors came here to be free of that, but many here now have forgotten their roots and have become lazy. I didn't want to make this a political rant, I do love my European brothers. Jeremy, you demonstrate the free spirit I admire. Just the fact that you are doing a bus conversion over there where they don't make it an easy thing to do makes you a true pioneer. You would fit in well in my neighborhood.
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cody
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 09:23:12 AM »

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Barn Owl
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 09:28:38 AM »

Quote
I had other ancestors already here waiting to tie up the boat when they landed lol.

That's funny.... I have some of that also, but thankfully I don't live in a tent today. So I know whose ideas prevailed.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 09:42:38 AM »

Some of my ancestors came here for the same reason, luckily, I had other ancestors already here waiting to tie up the boat when they landed lol.

Good thing it was the boat that got tied up rather than one or the other set of ancestors.   Grin
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cody
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 09:46:01 AM »

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Jeremy
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2010, 10:37:58 AM »

Thanks for the kind words Barnowl.

There are many countries in Europe with higher fuel prices, and much higher taxation generally, than the UK - but comparing countries just in terms of their taxes is of course pointless - disposable income is the only measure that matters. Countries that have high taxes inevitably also have equally high incomes, and of course much of that tax revenue is effectively returned to the population anyway, in the form of 'free' services (healthcare, child benefits, pensions, or whatever).

Personally if I were to 'put my bus on a boat' it would probably be to Sweden - incredibly high taxes, fantastic standard of living, extremely low crime rates and with a population which consistently come top in 'happiness' surveys and bottom in 'mental health problems' surveys. Unfortunately (or perhaps significantly) they have extremely tight immigration rules.

Jeremy
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2010, 10:48:53 AM »

On the other hand, the entire UK is about 2/3 the size of Texas.  3000 mile cross country trips just don't happen there.  We think nothing of driving from Florida to New England to visit family once or twice a year.
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 11:28:26 AM »

Clifford,

I watched a show on how accurate the "guesses" of the commodities futures speculators were in the last run up of fuel.

They sheepishly had to admit that, prediction after prediction, they were dead wrong over 90% of the time. Man, I want that job. I'm torn between that and weather forecasting either way you get paid big bucks tio be wrong a majority of the time!
Of course that didn't prevent their doomsday, worst possible case scenarios (which were all part of the plan to run up the price in the first place) from driving oil up to $4 a barrel.

I wouldn't bank a penny on the guesses of those folks, heck they make more money if the price goes up so if their reasonably optimistic about their own future on the planet they have to bank on the fact that everything that can go wrong will go wrong in a perfect sequence.

I really hate the fact that people make so much money out of scaring the crap out of people.

There was no factual basis for the last run up and there won't be for the next one either. A commodities speculators real worst fear is that someday we might actually figure out the sky isn't falling.

Rick





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luvrbus
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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2010, 11:53:29 AM »

You never know about these deals Rick last March everyone said I was throwing money away buying Ford Motor at a little over 2 bucks a share check it out sure wish I would have bought 50,000 shares now, but time will tell  


good luck
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 11:57:14 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2010, 06:40:22 PM »

I live in a agricultural area and farmed for 15 years before my welding business basically took that over. I lived with dealing commodities constantly. Gambling in Vegas wasn't much of a thrill compared to the grain markets! Buy the rumor, sell the fact or was it buy the fact, sell the rumor!! Grin It gets your heart beating....
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2010, 07:27:13 AM »

I hate to let you know, but your  diesel fuel futures seller has given you some bad info.  As far as the Sun refinery in Tulsa, it was sold months ago to HOLLY out of Dallas.  They are in the process of looking at pouring lots of money into the Tulsa plant.  At this time Tulsa's old Sun was only producing lubricants.  But with HOLLY's purchase they will be bring that plant back up to producing low sulfur diesel. 
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Aaron
luvrbus
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2010, 07:47:48 AM »

997, I don't think he really gave me any bad info talking to some of the people I know at Sun in Tulsa they sold because of EPA upgrades and that old refinery is not scheluded to go back on line till late 2011.
FWIW I built the wax plant and packaging plant at the old Sun refinery along with some explosion proof controls rooms anyways I am a head of the game today and I hope it doesn't go to 4 bucks because I am not greedy, it doesn't take much of a increase on 2 units for me to make a little profit and I will be happy but we will see my profit will be at the gate not the pumps  



good luck
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 08:16:33 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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cody
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2010, 08:11:08 AM »

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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2010, 09:24:06 AM »

Quote from: cody
Some of my ancestors came here for the same reason, luckily, I had other ancestors already here waiting to tie up the boat when they landed lol.

Quote from: HighTechRedneck
Good thing it was the boat that got tied up rather than one or the other set of ancestors.   Grin

You obviously don't know Cody, I would be willing that the boat and one of the ancestors got tied up! Wink
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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cody
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2010, 09:26:28 AM »

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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2010, 09:32:58 AM »

I plead the fifth lol





Shocked  fifth of what?  Shocked
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
niles500
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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2010, 03:54:04 PM »

The shuttering of refineries is mostly a product of increased capacity that has come on line combined with lower demand - As of late refinery utilization rates are in the low 80's% range compared to say the mid 90's in 2003/4 - Refineries optimally run in the 90% range to produce the most profit - FWIW

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MOPUEUS2&f=M
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2010, 09:44:29 PM »

I agree with Niles.  Refining capacity is not a large concern.  Some other factors are Mexico's drop in oil production and Venezuela diverting oil away from the US.

By not taxing oil as an asset we use more oil than we produce which in turn puts us at risk of rising prices.  We're obviously at the mercy of the spot fuel market but not so obviously financial markets.  I believe we will see more monetary arbitrage where oil is diverted to healthier currencies.

If $7.00 per gallon fuel puts a huge dent in your budget, now is a good time to adjust.  In SD the small cars that everybody paid a premium are now going below market.  Even new ones, the local AAA magazine highlighted a couple of small cars selling at what sounded like significant discounts.  Versa is the only name I remember. 

Jeremy,

Your idea of moving to Sweden fits in with the way the world operates.  I don't remember if it 18th or 19th when Wagoner's law came into vogue, over simplified it states, as a country becomes more prosperous taxes rise.  Because rich people expect a higher level of service from the government.

It seems yearly there are surveys that indicate Scandinavians are the happiest people on earth and they have the highest taxes.  The countries with the lowest taxes, think Somalia, tend to be at the bottom of the happiness scale.

Mike     

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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2010, 06:12:53 AM »

At least the folks in Sweden get somethng for all their taxes.  They get health care for all, retirement, mandatory vacation pay, and generous unemployment benefits.  We get some of this stuff in the USA, but not nearly the levels they offer.

At least one of the European countries has some sort of ban on workers being on-call after hours.  A software company I know routes all after hours calls to the USA because of this.
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2010, 06:24:43 AM »

I have a differnet concept.  I don't want the governemnt taking my money and I don't want my government to do anything except keep a strong military.  I don't want their healthcare, retirement, nothing at all.  They can keep it.  I saw an episode of COPS the other day and saw a man getting arrested for carrying a rifle.  It made it a felony because it was loaded.  How the heck did we allow the government to step all over the Constitution I will never know.  But the less educated in the Constitution we allow ourselves to become, the faster we deliver ourselves to slavery.
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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2010, 06:46:48 AM »

Good morning all,

I'm sure everyone knows that if this goes much further off the original topic they're gonna shut it down.

I know it's hard to do but we function better as a board when we stick to bus issues.

Just my two cents,

Rick
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2010, 07:13:58 AM »

Cody,

Looks like you might be making some money. Fuel went up .10 a gallon yesterday in OK  Grin
Good for you, bad for me  Cry

And the news last night said it was going to continue up  Angry

Bryan
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billy6941
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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2010, 06:00:20 PM »

It's gonna happen sooner than December, here. We already pay $3.81. It's strange, because I live 25 miles from the refinery and the oil comes out of the ground less than a hundred miles from here!!!!
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