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Author Topic: automatic vs 4spd  (Read 7978 times)
RJ
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2010, 08:51:41 AM »

I'm not sure what Tom's grumble with the 10-spd's shift pattern is.  I never had any problem with it in the Crowns & Gilligs I drove that had them.

Then again, they weren't 80,000 lbs either, so I was skip-shifting a lot.  Agree that it's a long throw from 5 > 6 or 4 >6, but really not that bad.

The pattern, btw, looks like this for most 10-spd RoadRangers:


R      2/7   4/9
|       |       |
|-----|-----|
|       |       |
1/6   3/8   5/10


Now, one school district I worked for had a Gillig pusher with a 10-spd RR in it, and the shift pattern looked like this:


5/10    3/8    1/6
|           |        |
|--------|------|
|           |        |
4/9       2/7    R


Talk about something to screw with the minds of newbie drivers with - especially since the linkage was so worn that it was like trying to stir pudding with a wet spaghetti noodle!

Because the gearbox is turned around in a pusher configuration, there's a little something extra to tinker with when installing one in the Eagle.  Unless you want to use it as an anti-theft deterrent!

Paul -  I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around your friend Bob's claim that hills he used to take at 25 - 35 can now be taken at 55, simply because of a gearbox changeout.  5 - 10 mph faster, maybe, but not 20.  Little things called gravity & power-to-weight ratio play a BIG role. . .  My experience has been that the three-axle Crown, loaded w/ 90 jr hi kids, still did 35 mph up the long 6% grades we've got around here.  Empty it would do 45.  Hmmmmm, think that might be a little like Jack Conrad's claim that his MC-8 gets 11 mpg?  (5 in town & 6 highway = 11, right?)

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink




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RJ Long
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Lin
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2010, 12:30:50 PM »

I did consider an RR too.  Among other things, it is a virtual guaranty that you will be the only one that can drive it.
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2010, 12:44:50 PM »

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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2010, 02:17:04 PM »

Hey something I know a little about.  I have had two Volvo Class 8s to pull my fifth wheel, one with a 10 spd and one with a 13 spd.  Total weight was about 36,000 lbs so lightly loaded.  Started in 4th, then fifth, then 7-10.  Always "float" shifted so only used the clutch at standstill.  It does take a little time to learn how to float shift, especially down shifting, but if you float shift the Spicer's now it should be the same.  If you use a clutch it will take a little adjustment and a lesson or two.

Chuckd
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2010, 02:28:07 PM »

RJ

Just remember that I was only trying to remember what he told me, I think I got it right! Wink

I won't be using all the gears all the time anyway, so it's a moot point.

I'm not concerned with the shift pattern much, as it'll get learned one way or another. I like the theft deterant part though! Wink

I'm looking for low cost, more choices to shift depending on the situation, and most important, an easier install than making a whole lot of modifications to the package. I  don't mind doing the work, just need to find a place to do it when the time comes.

Dallas brings up a valid point that I hadn't considered a few months back. After digging into this I can see the benefits. I'm in no hurry as we sit most of the time anyway, but when we start to travel more in a year or so I want to be ready.

We'll stay away from the Rocky's Grin
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« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2010, 03:15:14 PM »

Dallas,

Even with an automatic I would be concerned about letting someone drive the bus in this area.  If it were a flat run, you could give someone the wheel right by the Interstate on ramp and tell them to just keep it going at 60-65 and all will be fine.  But when you add the hills, their is much more information involved.  Remember, we live in CA., and grades are the norm.  They would have to be instructed in using the Jakes if available, or how else to handle descents without over revving the engine.  This already limits who you will let drive.  Now add to that a simple H pattern 4 speed, and you have limited it a bit more.  Add double clutching to that, and they drop like flies.  Now just to make it more interesting, add on double the gears by a button on the shifter and tell them that will not need to use it most of the time anyway.  If there is anyone left, just tell them, "Oh yeah, don't forget the shift pattern is backwards." 

I learned the Spicer with and without the clutch.  I 'm sure the I would learn the RR too in whatever configuration, but I am just pointing out that driving it is a practiced skill.  Many here have huge amounts of experience and can drive anything without thinking about it.  But that is not the general case.  What percentage of wives really do share the driving?  I would guess it is pretty low.  Could they carefully creep along the Interstate, with coaching, if it were necessary?  With an automatic-- maybe.  With a double clutching backward 10 speed...?  The same goes for anyone else that might travel with us.  I might as well die in the driver's seat.
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2010, 03:42:00 PM »

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« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2010, 03:58:46 PM »

9spd looks like this:

   R   2/6  4/8
   |    |    |
   |---|---|
   |    |    |
   1   3/7  5/9
 
Just easier to shift-nothing wrong with the 10spd-considering it is the standard transmission in trucks now.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2010, 04:39:33 PM »

Dallas,

I could have wrong info, but when I looked into switching to the RR, I was told that pushing with it would require the trans facing 180 degrees from a truck installation and that that would reverse the shift pattern.  I think that the lack of experience I use as my reference is the real key.  Having driven numerous standard transmission cars, I still found that there was a learning curve on the bus.  I even had a bus with synchro before, and I found that "upgrading" to the Spicer still required adaption.  Now, I know that I might not be at the top of the heap of gear jammers, but I also know that I am probably above the national average.  Therefore, using that as a reference point, I can be sure that most people will even take longer to learn it than I did.  And that assumes that they even want to.

The suggestion that no one else drive the bus is reasonable but not absolute.  I have friends that have good experience with large motorhomes that could be candidates to drive the bus if necessary if it had an automatic.  Having learned this stuff at age 12, you might not have a good feel of what it is to learn at 60+.  Why, I learned to speak English as a mere child and haven't been able to learn another language since.  At age 12, if you missed a shift coming down a grade, you just said, "Weeeee"!   As an adult, you might start calculating unpleasant consequences.

By the way, I am not saying that the RR is a bad option.  I think the Spicer is a bad option and things only get better from there.  The RR is probably a excellent choice if you enjoy what it can do.  Personally, I think an Autoshift would be the best, but an Allison is next.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 04:44:08 PM by Lin » Logged

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Just Dallas
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« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2010, 04:54:11 PM »

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Bestekustoms
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« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2010, 05:59:15 PM »

GOOD STUFF !!!!

Well, I Already Have Power Steering On My 69 05 Eagle. So...The Next Step Must Have To Be The Roadranger 10 Speed.. RIGHT ??

One Of My Crowns Has The RR 10 Speed And It Really Kicks Butt !! Sounds Like To Me This Would Be A Great Combo On A Mostly Stock Eagle.

 IM GAME Shocked

Hopefully There Will Be More To Come On This Post About Doing This Conversion ? Sounds Good To Me....

So...A RR In A Crown Would Do The Trick Right ? They Are All The Same Correct ??

I Heard Someone Say That There Is An Eagle Out There That Has A RR 10 With The Shifter At The Drivers Window Side Of The Drivers Seat Shocked  Now How Would That Be For Shifting !!!  LOL !!! Grin. I Know Whos Bus It Is...And Will Get More Info On The Conversion.

Has Anyone Here ...Done This Change Over ??

JOHN
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« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2010, 08:47:53 AM »

On the RR facing backwards on a rear pusher, Eaton makes a reverse shifter that changes the shift pattern to make it seem correct at the driver's seat. 
I was once on a Dina bus in Mex and it had a 10 speed with reversed gear pattern and what they call a U shift overdrive.  I watched the driver drive the bus and obviously he'd been driving it for a while. But-it would definitely take a learning curve.  Here it is:

   4/9   3/8   1/6
     |      |      |
     |-----|----|
     |      |      |
   5/10  2/7   R
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Lin
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« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2010, 11:14:33 AM »

Oh yeah, I forgot another disadvantage to the automatic--it's hard for the wife to push start!
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« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2010, 01:53:21 PM »

Are these trans. 7, 9, 10spd the mesh kind or do they have square corners like the spicer 4 spd?
Richard
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RJ
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« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2010, 11:58:34 PM »

Richard -

Square.


FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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Fresno CA
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