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Author Topic: Tire safety  (Read 3239 times)
Tom Y
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« on: March 24, 2010, 05:28:30 AM »

Not sure this link will work. If not will someone fix it? This is worth seeing, as we heat up wheel nuts to remove. You Tube,  Wheel of fire traning video.      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBUVz...layer_embedded
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 09:01:38 AM »

You need to post a complete URL, the one you linked has a chunk elided.

-Sean
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 10:18:17 AM »

Wheels of Fire Training Video


Wheels of Fire Training Video
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 03:01:32 PM »

Thanks Ed.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 07:08:51 PM »

That is certainly an eye opener!
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 07:22:51 PM »

25 odd years ago when I lived in Sarasota, FL a guy did just this on a wheel on his car and that was the end result. the only difference is he was standing next to it when it blew up. pretty sure he didnt live long enough to even know what happened. I learned right then to never weld on a wheel with a tire on it.
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 07:43:37 PM »

I don't want to come off as being rude and crude but welding on a rim while it has 90 lbs of pressure in it? I call it "Culling the herd". What ever happened to common sense? Actually I weld on a lot of agricultural rims but I always have the tires dismounted so I can weld both sides of the rim.
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 08:03:10 PM »

I'm sure glad the narrator was wearing a hard hat.
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 05:49:33 AM »

25 odd years ago when I lived in Sarasota, FL a guy did just this on a wheel on his car and that was the end result. the only difference is he was standing next to it when it blew up. pretty sure he didnt live long enough to even know what happened. I learned right then to never weld on a wheel with a tire on it.

I was working for the Fire Dept. when that happened.  It took the top of his head off, literally.  One of my worst visual scenes in 28 years as a Paramedic.  Jack
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 06:00:44 AM »

I don't want to come off as being rude and crude but welding on a rim while it has 90 lbs of pressure in it? I call it "Culling the herd". What ever happened to common sense? Actually I weld on a lot of agricultural rims but I always have the tires dismounted so I can weld both sides of the rim.

I'm not too bothered if the welder (who has been informed) is the one that pays the price - but what if someone else is in the wrong place at the wrong time? The problem with lighting a fuse like that is the unknown time delay.

I'm with you concerning dismounting the tire - What good is 'fixing' one side if you don't know what is on the other side? I've seen plenty of rims that looked great on the outside - but inside was horrible.
BTW, 'fix-a-flat' has ruined many rims, unfortunately, several of my own before I learned. . . .
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 10:59:52 AM »

Generally all the rims I repair have tubes in them so dismounting is the only option.
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 02:10:37 PM »

This is right up there with the guy who bought a used S&S and didn't check the oil for a couple of years until the engine seized!!

In his case, at least stupidity wasn't fatal.
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 03:43:15 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 05:47:58 PM »

Dallas, no offense but I think your response is a bit arrogant. the reason they put the video out was not for dramatics but because people have and still do this very thing. ask Jack as he apparently cleaned up the mess that I mentioned from someone doing it. Yes you know better as do most of us but many people do stupid things (me included) and the tire company is trying to let people know not to try it. Just because it is illegal or foolish does not stop many people, just look around as you drive down any highway.
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 06:08:53 PM »

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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2010, 07:06:32 PM »

That's very optimistic, Dallas.  I think that foolishness has shown an amazing strength to survive and propagate.  I think one factor may be that they have bigger families.  For example, Bin Laden has 25 or 26 children while Einstein had three.
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2010, 08:16:46 PM »

Like I said "Culling the Herd". People should be smart enough to not stick pop bottle rockets up their butts and light them either but you've all seen the videos. And you are right about welding on any rim that is involved on a motor vehicle. I don't and won't. I get aluminum rims all the time that I turn away. I'm not losing my business or killing someone to save someone a few bucks.
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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 09:07:18 PM »

I think the real issue in the video is not about the worst types of negligence.  Although most would know not to weld a rim with the tire on it, many may use a propane torch to loosen lug nuts.  That is where this applies to me.
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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2010, 02:55:35 PM »

About a year ago I got new tires and the guy who put them on before cross threaded one nut. Well they heated it, beat on it, used a grinder and went across the street to barrow a cutoff wheel to finally get it off took about 1 1/2 hrs. So after watching that video I hate to think of what could have happened to us as I stood there watching as all of this took place. I learned something new from watching this video. So chopper scott & Dallas I for one did not know what welding or heating could do to a tire because I have never welded or been around welding at all. So I did take offense to your remarks about culling out the herd. I do have a 17 yr old son who wants to be a welder and is going to take classes this summer. The first thing I did was call him in to watch this video. He was shocked as was I at what we saw. Just fyi I felt those statements were rather arrogant. Just because someone does not know something does not mean they should be culled out. I sure hope neither of you are in charge of my health care LOL.
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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2010, 03:35:11 PM »

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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2010, 04:02:58 PM »

"Culling the herd", or, "skimming the gene pool", has little to do with lack of knowledge. It does have to do with the lack of due diligence to find out what the ramifications of an action are.
It sounds like you are stating that you wouldn't even think twice about whipping out the old Lincoln Buzz Box and whipping a bead on a cracked wheel. Please warn us when you are on the road, I don't want to be nearby when the wheel comes apart at the weld.
There was no arrogance involved, just a statement of fact.
However, you may take it anyway you want to, that's your decision, and if you feel compelled to go out and heat up a wheel to over 1300°, be my guest.
Now, as for using the word, "arrogance" or it's root, "arrogant," Merriam-Webster defines it this way:

Main Entry: ar·ro·gant
Pronunciation: \-gənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin arrogant-, arrogans, present participle of arrogare
Date: 14th century

1 : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner <an arrogant official>
2 : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance <an arrogant reply>


I don't see where Scott, nor I, exaggerated self worth or importance. We merely stated a fact, (It's illegal to weld a wheel that will be used on a highway) and an opinion, (Culling the Herd and You can't fix stupid), that you seem to be unable to agree with.

I suppose that if I warned you that putting diesel into the gas tank of your gasoline powered car that you stood a good chance of ruining your engine, or that if you stick your hand into the blades of a spinning airplane propeller you would probably come back a bit lopsided, you would consider arrogant.

Sorry for your problems, but maybe that's part of herd culling.

--------------------------------------

Dallas, I knew I could count on you to answer right away. I'm not sure where you got from my statement that I would not think twice about whipping out the old Lincoln buzz box whipping a bead.

The fact is as I stated I have no welding experience at all and therefore I would not attempt do do anything welding related. I just know how you can read into what I said that I would do any welding at all LOL.

So this does not get out of hand Please don't read things into what I say that are not there and I'll try and do the same with you.

And if you feel the need to trash me I'll understand.

WVaNative
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2010, 04:17:39 PM »

Terms such as "Culling the Herd" and "You can't fix stupid" are pretty generally used and were not directed at anyone in particular. Basically we are just commenting on how some people have absolutely no common sense and go about doing things that they shouldn't. You stated that you know nothing about welding and such WVA. Knowing nothing about welding would you weld on a leaky gas tank? Would you use a lighter to find a propane leak? It's all common sense and has nothing to do with whether I'm in charge of your health care or not. I get so sick and tired of having to be politically correct concerning every post I ever make less I upset someone. First off anyone welding on anything with pressure is an idiot and second off do you want to meet the bus or truck that has that welded rim on it? Common sense.
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2010, 04:51:50 PM »

Scott, As you state I know nothing about welding and therefore I would not attempt to do anything welding wise. If I find anything amiss with my tires or wheels or studs, I don't have it fixed but instead I replace said Tire or wheel or stud. I take the safty of my family and others on the road very seriously and don't believe in cutting corners.

But after seeing this video I wonder will dallas continue to do things as he always has and apply heat to his rims? I would not wish to see him or anyone get hurt or killed. And if dallas were to have an accident doing this what would be you response then? I hope not that we just culled out another one.

I will be sharing this video with the tire shop that I visited so they will be aware of the dangers of applying heat to wheels or studs also.

I appreciate all the knowledge and all of the people here and did not mean to start a urinating match with anyone. I just like to learn and much as I can each and every day that I am alive. I hope there are no hard feelings. But who knows LOL

WVaNative
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2010, 05:43:57 PM »

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« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2010, 06:05:41 PM »

You do have to admit that laying your hand on one of your tires after running down the road on a hot day will probably get you a burn! I used my IR gun to check temps on our trip south but it was still pretty cold out. Generally the tires were  in the 120 degree range. I'll be interested to see what it shows on a 100 degree day! That's why you see caps laying all over the side of the road when it heats up. The good part about the video is it raises the awareness of those that don't know any better. But cutting or heating a nut to remove it happens all the time. Nobody heats one until they get the rim red hot also.
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« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2010, 09:07:25 PM »

I would think that the danger of pyrolysis could be avoided with a nitrogen fill. Perhaps that's the best way to deal with hot tires.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
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Sean
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2010, 12:41:25 AM »

I would think that the danger of pyrolysis could be avoided with a nitrogen fill.


Not true.  Pyrolysis is an anaerobic process; no oxygen is required.  Filling the tires with nitrogen, helium, or any other inert gas will not prevent it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2010, 05:44:29 AM »

When a wheel broke on my equipment I have saw the dealers remove the valve stem and cut and weld on the wheels for hours without dismounting the tire or removing the wheel from the axle

good luck
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« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2010, 05:45:10 AM »

The thing I took away from watching the video is what COULD happen. If someone who knows nothing about welding was in the waiting room watching the work being done at the repair shop & saw this being done, prudence would suggest taking a walk to put some distance between you & the work - not simply remain there & hope they know what they are doing.

Also, there are many here that don't know that it is illegal to weld on rims - ignorance may not be an excuse, but it is all some of us have.  Wink
Every steel rim I have ever used was welded on during the manufacturing process . . . .

Prudence also enters the picture when it comes to using heat to remove nuts -
I've seen a nut torched off with no damage to the rim.
I've seen rims that had huge craters & scars left where the tapered seat was.
I've even got an axle with the rim centers still bolted to it but the rest was torched off - I got it this way, so I don't know if the tire was on it when torched - or how many of the heard were culled with that torch & rim.  Shocked  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2010, 07:16:36 AM »

I was impressed by the training film.  I think the point that just removing the valve stem core would solve the problem in the first place is well made.  I also note that the film is from the off-road division of Bridgestone, where presumably weld repair of wheels on off-road equipment is legal, no idea about advisable.  I do think there is a vast difference between laying a 10,000 degree (or hotter) arc on the bead seat area or well of a wheel for 10 seconds and between using a cutting torch (5000 degrees) or a Mapp torch (3500 degrees) on a lug nut.   And - I think that an awful lot of trained and experienced people do dangerous things in a well considered and careful manner, right up until something goes a little bit wrong and they are dead or injured. 

Brian
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