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Author Topic: Engine stopped, on the side of the road  (Read 3364 times)
5B Steve
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« on: March 27, 2010, 12:05:50 PM »



     Hey Guys,

.
   I'm with a friend, engine has no power, had a service truck come and help but they don't know whats wrong.

   Plenty of fuel, changed fuel filters,now the engine will turn over but won't fire even on either. fuel through the lines.

   tank full.  does anyone have any clue what,s going on .   switch off, wire loose?  I'm posting this on my I-phone hopefully

  someone will have a idea.   MY CELL  IS  317-358 7520


   Thanks!

   Steve 5B........
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5B Steve
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2010, 12:07:42 PM »


    Guys that engine is in a MCI  8V-71


  Steve 5B........
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2010, 12:17:01 PM »

Sorry the hear of the troubles but,

If the engine turns over and no smoke, you know it is getting fuel. I would suspect the blower drive. Pull the air horn and see if the blower is turning.

Hope this helps

Don
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Sam 4106
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 12:18:25 PM »

Hi 5b Steve,
It sounds like the engine is starving for air. This is only a guess but maybe the air damper in the blower inlet got triped. The air damper is held open by a latch that can be triped by either the solonoid or by hand. The other possibility is the shaft that drives the blower broke.
Good luck, Sam MC8
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1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2010, 12:47:46 PM »

Fuel pump?...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2010, 12:54:33 PM »

Electric controlled or mui?
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2010, 12:55:45 PM »

When it cranks does it sound like it still has good compression? Did it get hot before it lost power?
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Tom Phillips
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2010, 12:56:29 PM »

Post your location.
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Tom Phillips
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2010, 12:58:40 PM »

Schraeder valve?...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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5B Steve
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2010, 01:21:59 PM »

Hey guys.    What is a schrader value. No it wasn't hot befor it shut down.    Steve 5B....
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fe2_o3
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2010, 01:29:22 PM »

Sits on the engine. Piston pushes crescent shaped arm that shuts off the fuel. If it doesn't relax you get no fuel. Last time it happened to me. I unbolted it from the manifold so the crescent arm could open and we could move...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2010, 02:00:47 PM »

Did he hit the Emergency Stop switch? Closes flapper at blower..Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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JackConrad
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2010, 02:45:59 PM »

Here is the engine stop cylinder on top of the governor. If the piston is sticking out, it will keep the fuel shout off.  If you loose power to the solenoid that controls this piston or the solenoid fails, this piston will not retract. The piston can be moved by removing one of the 2 mounting screws and twisting the piston to the side so the piston no longer contacts the engine stop lever.  Jack
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2010, 03:35:54 PM »

Just spoke with him ..they are running...Alge in tank
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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2010, 05:39:30 PM »

Interesting conclusion, but I thought he had said it would not start even with ether.  I would think that if there was ether, air and compression it would turn over.
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5B Steve
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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2010, 06:22:42 PM »



    Hey Guys,

   I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY SINCERE APPREATION TO EACH AND EVERYONE THAT POSTED AND PERSONALLY CALLED MY CELL

   TODAY  TO DIAGNOIS THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAD ON THE ROAD THIS AFTERNOON. JACK, THANK YOU FOR THE PICTURE, NOW

   I KNOW WHAT A SCHRADER VALUE IS!  WHAT HAD HAPPENED WAS THAT THE TANK HAD ALOT OF ALGE AND THE LINES WERE

   FULL.  ALSO HE JUST WASHED THE ENGINE AND FOR SOME HOW WATER HAD GOTTEN IN THE THE BIG HOSE FROM THE AIR

   CLEANER TO THE BLOWER.  THAT'S WHY IT WOULDN'T FIRE WITH ETHER.  ALSO, THE LINE IN THE TANK WAS SHORTENED (
 
  FOR THE TIME ) SO IT WOULDN'T PICK UP THE SLUDGE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK. RE-PRIMED LINES BLOWN OUT, SHOT

  OF ETHER AND AWAY WE GO! 

   MANY THANKS AGAIN!

  STEVE 5B......
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Sam 4106
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« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2010, 06:40:55 PM »

Hi 5B Steve,
Glad the problem is solved.
Jack posted a picture of an engine stop cylinder, NOT a Schrader valve. A Schrader valve is what your wheels have in them for inflating and deflating. A Schrader valve consists of a valve stem and a valve core. Please Google Schrader valve and read the information for yourself. It is confusing when someone misidentifies a part, especially in your situation of being stranded on the road with the stress of trying to find and correct a problem.
Again, glad the problem is solved. Sam MC8
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« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2010, 06:52:26 PM »

Hi 5B Steve,
Glad the problem is solved.
Jack posted a picture of an engine stop cylinder, NOT a Schrader valve. A Schrader valve is what your wheels have in them for inflating and deflating. A Schrader valve consists of a valve stem and a valve core. Please Google Schrader valve and read the information for yourself. It is confusing when someone misidentifies a part, especially in your situation of being stranded on the road with the stress of trying to find and correct a problem.
Again, glad the problem is solved. Sam MC8

Thanks Sam. That one bugged me when I read it, too, but I didn't have the time to correct it. I was just hoping that Jack's photo would be enough for Steve to figure it out, and that his tires were still full of air  Cheesy

As for the problem, I'm glad it's working again, but have serious concerns about the diagnosis. If you got water in your air intake tube, your air intake tube, then you probably have a split in the
rubber somewhere, which will be sucking all sorts of dust directly into your engine, bypassing the big ole restriction we all call an air filter. That's not gonna do your engine much good. But then,
if it's really all full of algae, as you say, it sounds like it hasn't been well cared for anyway. Here's hoping this is a new acquisition by your friend and that much needed care is about to commence.
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Craig Shepard
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LarryN 4106
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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2010, 07:23:41 PM »

I thought, possibly, the reference was to the Skinner valve.......
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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2010, 09:06:23 PM »

Thank you...Shraeder Skinner. Golden years my butt. Half of what I knew is gone...The rest is wrong...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2010, 11:22:07 PM »

Just FYI I have a Shrader valve on my shut down,  It is on the air cylinder that the skinner controls.  Basically if I remove the air from it the engine shuts down.  This is something I have never really understood.  I've posted about it here with no reply so I figure it is another PO add on.  The "skinner" pressurizes the air cylinder, which seems to allow full motion of the rack when pressurized ( also and ???the rack has full motion when I have no air pressure), emptying the air via skinner or shrader,  "momentarily pushing the rack closed" and shuts down the engine.  This system is less than ideal as it is not very positive, sometimes I need to activate it twice for shut down.
  Anyone care to explain? 
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« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2010, 04:10:54 AM »

Steve, Questions. How long had she been sitting, how old was the fuel and was the tank full?

I ask this because I've never seen alge in our tank, course we live in a fairly dry climate.

Glad you got 'er back on the road, what an experience huh!
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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2010, 04:41:54 AM »

 Alge brought me to a complete stop in the middle of the road, the lines were actually plugged and had to be blown out. Very frustrating. Now you need to use a fuel treatment to kill the alge. Not what they sell at truck stops but a quality biocide.  Here's one.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?catalogId=10001&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&keyword=bio+cide&Ntt=bio+cide&N=377+710&y=0&x=0&storeId=10001&Ntk=Primary+Search&ddkey=SiteSearch

 Bacteria and fungi can grow in diesel fuel tanks causing bio-contamination appearing like a black stringy slime or sludge. This contamination can cause equipment to shut down by plugging filters. This acidic slime and sludge contamination can corrode tanks and engine parts.

ValvTect BioGuard Fuel Microbiocides are EPA registered microbiocides that quickly and effectively kill and prevent the growth of bacteria and fungi found in diesel fuel, heating oil, residual oil, lubricating oil and Gasoline. BioGuard works in as little as 2 - 3 hours.
 
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2010, 05:17:04 AM »

Just FYI I have a Shrader valve on my shut down,  It is on the air cylinder that the skinner controls.  Basically if I remove the air from it the engine shuts down.  This is something I have never really understood.  I've posted about it here with no reply so I figure it is another PO add on.  The "skinner" pressurizes the air cylinder, which seems to allow full motion of the rack when pressurized ( also and ???the rack has full motion when I have no air pressure), emptying the air via skinner or shrader,  "momentarily pushing the rack closed" and shuts down the engine.  This system is less than ideal as it is not very positive, sometimes I need to activate it twice for shut down.
  Anyone care to explain? 

Well, it seems like maybe your shutdown is hooked up backwards, with wrong parts, but can't say for sure. The normal operation of the shutdown is with a spring loaded air cylinder that
retracts when  pressure is released. The Skinner valve is normally open, and is held closed by electric, which cuts the flow of air to the cylinder and the spring retracts the push rod away
from the rack shutdown. When electric is cut to the skinner (e.g. turn off the bus), the skinner returns to open position, air flows to the air cylinder and pushes the push rod into the shutdown
lever, which shuts off the flow of fuel to the engine.

That's how the "normal" operation works. Maybe there was something different before my time as your bus is older than I am and I don't claim to know everything about anything.  Smiley



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Craig Shepard
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2010, 05:49:48 AM »

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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2010, 06:23:24 AM »

Yeah, I may not have explained exactly what happens vis a vis the skinner but  I do know for sure that bleeding the air from the air cylinder via the shrader shuts  er down.  I don't understand it...but it works.   I will continue working on other  stuff and one day I'll understand it.  My feeling has always been that someone used the shutdown system from another type of diesel and fitted it to this engine.  FWIW I scavenged the shutdown from another ('58) 4104, those bits did not match what I had, and as I did not scavenge the rack pushrod from that bus, I can't use them (this was before I had worked out mine wasn't OE)...I guess this one gets.."if it ain't broke...."
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2010, 09:24:28 AM »

Zub,

Dallas and Gumpy are correct. I really don't see how it could be hooked up in reverse and still work since it takes air pressure to shut it off and a spring holds it open. That would be hard to do.

The ultimate test is to start the engine with no air in the system. The engine will start and then continue to run even with the engine run switch off. When this happens you can't shut it off until the air builds up.

With no air you can also start the engine with all switches off by jumping the starter solenoid since the starter always has battery power. It will run until the air builds up and shuts it off.

I've done all this on my 4104.

The downside to doing this is that if the engine runs away you have only the emergency shutdown to stop it.










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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2010, 04:11:39 PM »

Yeah I've been there, and I know the air baffle shutdown doesn't stop my engine just bogs it down, then I drop the clutch and it dies.  I took a pic of it today.  I'll start another thread calling on all non DD people to see if they recognize it.
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2010, 04:48:17 PM »

maybe you need to look into this company???  http://www.algae-x.net/4/4/Product%20Literature.html
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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