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Author Topic: Fire Safety ~ Revisited  (Read 2930 times)
Bob Gil
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2010, 12:25:12 PM »

Jim I am interested in your product.

I serviced hand held fire extinguishers many years ago.  We gave a little course on using them for some of the oil companies in Texas.  The fuel, oil on water with tires was the fire that we use to extinguish.  We found that some of the power extinguishers did not get the job done while some of the more expensive ones could.

I still Keep one of the 2.5 gal water extinguishers in the house all the time and make sure it is ready when we have a fire in the fire place.  But I am worried about the use of it on electrical fires?  How is you product on electrical fires?

Bob
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
rv_safetyman
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2010, 03:57:53 PM »

Bob, it is water based, so the official answer is that it is not "rated" for class C fires (at least while the circuit is still energized).

Having said that, I often have fire fighters in my seminars and every one of them said they would not have a problem with using these extinguishers on up to 240 volt fires.  I know that I would not hesitate to use it on an electrical fire.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Just Dallas
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2010, 05:01:42 PM »

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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2010, 07:45:19 AM »

Dallas, I am not familiar with those bottles.  You would need some sort of "dip tube" that would pick up the material off the bottom.

You can buy temperature sensitive spray heads (various trigger temperatures) that could be made to work - at least in the interior.  I thought about using them in the engine compartment, but the highest trigger temperature was too low for that compartment in my opinion. 

Cold Fire concentrate, mixed with GOOD water, does not create an issue with any tank material that I am aware of.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
FloridaCliff
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2010, 11:27:35 AM »

I would lean more to a manual release for the interior.

The combination of smoke detectors and then a manual release should provide sufficent time and suppresion to "get out".

Maybe an activation trigger in the bedroom and one by the door?

Cliff

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1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2010, 11:55:44 AM »

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JackConrad
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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2010, 12:46:43 PM »

What about just placing the tank upside down so that gravity is always feeding it?
Scott tanks are just SCBA cylinders, used by fire/rescue personnel, and built on the design of the SCUBA needs. I believe they are rated to 2500+ psi, but I may be wrong on that.

I think our Scottpack tanks were rated at 2250. The new fiberglass wrapped are rate for 5000 IIRC.  Jack
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« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2010, 01:53:41 PM »

I know yall are trying to find a less expensive way to go, but........if you cant be sure something is going to work, It might give you a false sense of security. I would rather just get less of a sure thing than a lot of something that might not work in an emergency. Good luck, hope you can come up a way to get something figured out to be safe.
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Mixed up Dina, ready for the road as of 12/25/2010
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2010, 02:49:35 PM »

You know guy's, this has turned out to be a very educational read. I had not given much thought about fire safety in a bus before but now I plan on adding this aspect to my plans for our bus. Thanks guy's for all of your thoughts on this subject.

WVaNative
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2010, 05:41:13 PM »

Dallas, I would think that inverting the tank would work.  I think I would favor using something like the swirl heads I use on my system and have a mechanical valve located close to the tank to trigger the system (minimal plumbing that is pressurized and prone to leaks or failure).  I know that the use temperature sensitive sprinkler heads is extensive in buildings.  However, they are slow to react and I just do not know how robust they are in our "shakey" houses.  The positive side of sprinkler heads is that they will protect when you are not there.

I went through all of this thought process and a bunch more as I conceived my system.  After many years of thinking about it and over 5 years in "production", I still believe that sensing a fire by measuring the temperature electronically is the best approach (but then again I am prejudiced Grin).  Once you get it in an electronic format, you can do a ton of things.  The system can automatically shut off the propane, shut down the generator (and auto gen start) and even notify you, if you are remote to the bus.  The other major factor of an electronic automatic system is that I will know that it has gone off!!!   If a sprinkler system goes off and you don't know it, you no longer have protection.  Indeed, you may not even know you had a issue.

Your description brought to mind the old hang up extinguishers that had a temperature sensitive head and glass housing.  I am pretty sure they were gravity only and were filled with carbon tetrachloride.  The fluid was red in color.  Some were made in Denver and my dad worked with the company in their advertising campaign.

Jim

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2010, 06:38:08 PM »

OK Dallas, now you have gone and done it.  As I typed the last post, a flood of memory came over me.

The company my dad did work for was Red Comet.  I did a bit of searching and found this:  http://www.littletongov.org/history/othertopics/redcomet.asp

Wow, you talk about memories.  They show an old ad with an illustration.  My dad was a cartoonist and I am pretty sure that is his work.  I will call them and see if they have any historical information.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Just Dallas
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« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2010, 07:15:24 AM »

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« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2010, 09:37:55 AM »

Dallas, I agree on the fail-safe need.  When we designed our distribution valve, I insisted that mechanical activation of the valve be included.  You can see the pull tag and manual activation handle in the attached photo.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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