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Author Topic: Pulling the Engine on a 4106 - Pictures & Video  (Read 7227 times)
OneLapper
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2010, 07:18:41 PM »

Nice job with the pictures.

The 94 year old guy will turn over in his grave if you don't get that oil and antifreeze cleaned up quick Smiley  LOL

That hitch pulling from the frame is indeed a good design. Sounds like it caused you a little grief.
 
What all are you doing to it before you re install ??  

My engine has EPIC proportions of blow-by.  It's had a vibration that's gotten progressively worse over the last few years.  That hasn't stopped me from using it to tow my race car around the country, but I'm also towing my mobile garage with me, so I figured I'd have the tools to fix it if something broke.  Well, it never broke! It just smoked more and more.  It smoked so bad, some witch in a Mercedes 240D gave me the finger when she passed me!!!  A 240D!!!! I knew it was time to replace the engine after that gesture.

The transmission actually broke first, so that made it unpleasant to drive.  I've had a replacement engine waiting to go in for quite a while, so here we go!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 07:55:13 PM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
Paso One
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2010, 07:44:12 PM »

Who shows up in a dress to pull a bus engine?!? pffttt... silly girls.


Not many people could get away with that.  Good for you
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
6V71  V730 4:10
johns4104s
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2010, 07:52:52 PM »

Good looking 06, Do not put a new engine in without being sure the harmonic balance is new (Detroit recommends a new balancer on every rebuild) I learned this lesson by the new engine vibrating like mad, its easier to put a new one on with the engine.

John
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OneLapper
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2010, 08:15:18 PM »

Good looking 06, Do not put a new engine in without being sure the harmonic balance is new (Detroit recommends a new balancer on every rebuild) I learned this lesson by the new engine vibrating like mad, its easier to put a new one on with the engine.

John


Yikes. That's good to know.  I'll have to price one out.  The engine I bought was rebuilt with a replacement short block, but I wonder if the NY Transit Authority would put a new harmonic balancer on it.  I won't even know how well it runs until after I install it!  I have run it on the shop floor for a minute or two.  It fired up immediately and didn't smoke or have blow by.

Here's a crappy video of the engine running:

Detroit Diesel 8V71


I warned you!  Cell phone video.
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2010, 09:03:17 PM »

OneLapper, I have been told that the 8V71 does not require a vibration dampener. That information came from Southern Oregon Diesel some years ago. On the other hand, the 6N71 does require one.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2010, 09:45:01 PM »

That clutch looks way worse then the clutch out of my Kenworth with 1.2 million miles on it (I never did a clutch job).  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
OneLapper
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2010, 04:40:03 AM »

That clutch looks way worse then the clutch out of my Kenworth with 1.2 million miles on it (I never did a clutch job).  Good Luck, TomC

The clutch was a drag, literally! The pilot bearing is seized, so you can imagine how long I had to wait between shifts.  Tonight after work I'll mic everything up and see if the plates can be resurfaced.  This shop has a resurfacing machine in it, too! Just need to learn how to use it!!
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2010, 07:29:15 AM »

What are your thoughts on a V730 auto? It would make it a bigger project though. Cutting a larger hole in the bulkhead, probably a bigger radiator, etc. Nimco sells good take outs for ~ $1200+ship. For those reading this post another way to pull the engine w/o a forklift is to crib up the cradle (with wheels if possible or a way to put a pallet jack under it) and then pull the bus away.
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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2010, 07:32:01 AM »

Always a good day when friends show up & actually help.  Grin

My only concern is that you just aren't greasy enough  Wink! Looks like your helper dodged most of the acumulated grime also. That probably explains the rust!!!! You need some leaks! Nothing beats a big shop and the right tools.

Yeah, I was noticing that they were a lot cleaner than I would have expected.  Are we sure that is really a Detroit Diesel and not an imitation?   Grin Grin
If you know what you're doing, you don't have to rub all the grease off on your clothes  Wink

Dark clothing also hides grease.  Grin

The thing that causes me the most concern with towing is the fatigue effects on the frame resulting from the hitch loads. Constant inspections of the susceptible areas should provide adequate warning so a repair can be effected before failure.

Then there is the moment added to the rear of the bus & the chassis' ability to handle the added loads - this has lead to buckled floors in other coaches - but, how much was a result of corrosion & other abuses in it's past?

Good luck with the reinstall.
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johns4104s
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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2010, 04:56:58 PM »

Onelapper,

While you have the bulk head exposed check for cracks, the 06 model did have problems with cracking,

On the no balancer on the 8v71, I am not sure if they have one or not, but if I were you I would check,

John
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OneLapper
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2010, 06:26:55 PM »

Onelapper,

While you have the bulk head exposed check for cracks, the 06 model did have problems with cracking,

On the no balancer on the 8v71, I am not sure if they have one or not, but if I were you I would check,

John

As far as I can tell, there are no cracks in the bulkhead, and no signs of any previous repairs to the bulkhead!  That's a good sign.  I still have yet to pressure wash the engine bay, so I can't say for 100% certainty that there's no damage, but I looked closely and didn't see anything alarming.

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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2010, 06:56:35 PM »

The clutch is a mystery, but the numbers don't lie.

I brought the flywheel surface to a machinist and he didn't think that he'd be able to resurface it because of the high, or "hot" spots on it.  It's .0430" under spec as new.  That's not a big deal because the manual states it can be cut three times, but each time a "shim" needs to be installed between the plate and the flywheel when it's installed.  I found one shim which measures .0320", so I take that it's been cut once and if I can find another shim or two, I'd be able to have the shop cut almost .0500" off and still have it within spec when installed. The machining will cost $150-175.  A new plate is $230 plus shipping, say $250.  

Another picture, the flywheel plate is on the left



The friction discs are both under spec by .0100".  They could be reused I imagine, the only damage is the worn spring hubs from all the clutch chatter.

The pressure plate was on the new side, like the friction discs, but since the finger heights were not likely adjusted, it's too far gone.  Heavy heat cracking on only one part of the surface.



Looks like a completely new clutch is needed.  Yikes.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 07:42:23 PM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2010, 01:07:01 PM »

Cool pics and video! Thanks for sharing!
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« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2010, 12:53:41 AM »

Thank you OneLap for some great pics. and commentary.

I hope you can come thru with an art in the BCMag on the hitch fabrication, design and install.

Thank you,

John
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johns4104s
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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2010, 01:13:13 PM »

Onelap, for an extra $60 or so I would get a new flywheel, the rest of the clutch rebuild should be $290 or so.

John
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