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Author Topic: Need Radiator Hose 4106 - We are Stranded  (Read 3428 times)
Madmike
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« on: April 24, 2010, 08:26:58 AM »

I am in Milwaukee and headed south to St Louis and NEED UPPER RADIATOR HOSE.  2 3/4" flex hose.  If anyone knows where I can get one please call me 720-345-8229
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2010, 08:39:07 AM »

I'll Google a NAPA or Auto parts store.

Where exactly are you?
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OneLapper
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Madmike
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2010, 08:49:04 AM »

I am in Oak Creek WI.  The mechanic is going to try an patch the hose because they cannot find one.  I do not have a computer and my wife is kindly typing this right now.  Thanks!!
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2010, 08:57:32 AM »

Good Luck!

Been there, done that!
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OneLapper
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2010, 09:04:07 AM »

 NAPA  in South Milwaukee 414 762 6272...See if that helps...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2010, 09:04:53 AM »

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Madmike
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2010, 09:27:46 AM »

Thanks, I will check these out!!
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LarryN 4106
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2010, 03:21:37 PM »

I guess when this problem is solved, I would LOVE to know the part numbers of the new radiator hose so we can go buy one and throw in it the "spares" box.
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2010, 03:30:11 PM »

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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2010, 04:21:53 PM »

Radiator hose has been the subject of several threads. 

Dallas has given you the correct answer, but let me expand (based on 34 years at Gates).  First, every application I have seen on a bus consists of metal tubing connected with short pieces of straight hose. 

The straight hose should be of a "wrapped" construction.  This hose has a texture like fabric on the outside.  Do not use hose with convolutions or smooth hose.  The smooth hose has knit reinforcing and it pretty pliable but not durable for tons of miles.

The convoluted hose is generally advertised as being able to fit a lot of automotive applications with one size.  It is terrible stuff.  Don't think about using it on ANYTHING if you can help it.

This is not a place to cut corners.  Get something like Gates Green Stripe and you will be good to go.  Some folks go for silicone hose like that used on commercial trucks.  We don't need that much hose.  It is terribly expensive and hard to seal in many cases (even with constant tension clamps).

For me it is hard to rationalize using the type of hose we do, since truck and bus applications are really less demanding than a car.  Automotive applications routinely run at temperatures over 220* and at pressures of up to 25 pounds.  Our applications rarely get over 210* and pressures are more like 7 psi.  The main difference is the huge mileage that trucks and buses accumulate in a year's time.  Our buses don't accumulate that kind of mileage, but we might as well use the same type of hose that trucks and buses do.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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eddieboy
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2010, 06:14:11 PM »

Are you still stranded.  i am just across the border into Illinois.  I might be able to give you ahand.
Ed
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2010, 06:18:24 PM »

silicone will leak on "old" fittings/surfaces.  If it is free it is really the best.  You can make it seal on any old rusty pipe by mixing up some JB weld and spreading a liberal coat on the DRY rusty  pipe.   Then fit the hose on the pipe but don't tighten the clamp.  The hose is sorta snug....right.  After te JB has cured tighten the clamp and you are good to go.  The hose comes off like it was installed on a new pipe and the fix is semi perminent except that a screwdriver prying under the hose ruins things so you need more JB.

John
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Madmike
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2010, 10:35:38 AM »

First of all I want to Thank Everybody that helped by posting.

I was driving my 4106 from Marquette MI to St. Louis. The upper hose started to leak so I took it to the OakCreek WI Frieghtliner dealer. They could not find the hose and tried to repair it. They charged me $350.00 for some antifreeze 2 hose clamps and a piece of hose. The patch did not work and we only made it about 1 mile from there shop. They closed at soon as we left so they would not look at it until Monday. We would still be stranded on the side of the interstate if it was not for a very nice guy named Terry. He chased down some hose, went to a muffler shop and had a pipe bent and flaired so that we could get down the road. It worked very well and have not seen a drop since he worked on it. Sad thing was, he spent his whole Saturday helping us and we only could give him the last of our money. I know after parts he probally made 80 bucks. He even let us keep a 20 for food on the way home. I now have a new friend and have changed my attidue towards strangers. Thanks again Terry!
I do have the part number for the hose and I will post it on a diffrent message. It is made by Gates and Napa has them at there distribution centers.
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2010, 10:51:16 AM »

The Freightliner dealership sounds like a place to avoid for sure. Indeed a rip off.
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2010, 01:15:37 PM »

I am VERY SORRY but it was the Kenworth Dealer in Oak Creek.

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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2010, 01:30:15 PM »

My experience has been that most truck shops charge around $300.00 to open the engine hatch on a bus. If they can't work on the engine from a sitting position, they are not interested.
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2010, 04:56:13 PM »

My experience has been that most truck shops charge around $300.00 to open the engine hatch on a bus. If they can't work on the engine from a sitting position, they are not interested.

I really love the truck shops that charge an extra $15 or $20 an hour to work on a motorhome.  They claim it takes longer to do the work because of the fancy interiors and such.

Fine, charge me more hours if it takes longer, but don't take longer and then charge more for the hours you do work!
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2010, 06:12:04 PM »

At $300 I'd say you got off lightly.  As far as I could tell our local Cat dealer charged $7500 to open the shop doors.  The problem with driving these big machines is that they are commercial units and if we want somebody who is used to doing commercial repairs then we'll have to pay commercial rates.  The more we can do ourselves the better off we'll be.  For the rest of the time you better have a credit card with a high limit.
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2010, 06:56:55 PM »

Our local DD shop charges about 120 an hour for buses or motorhomes. Why? Because it ties up two of their bays, and they usually stay busy all of the time. Made sense to me.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2010, 07:15:09 PM »

No difference in price on buses, motor homes or trucks at Stewart and Stevenson all one price except road service.
Freightliner dealers will rip you big time and they make motorhome chassis fwiw if you guys ever need work in Vegas avoid Freightliner there in a bus. 


good luck
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2010, 07:22:04 PM »

Our Freightliner dealer has separate facilities for trucks in one building and motorhomes/fire trucks in another building.  Don't know what the rates are. 

Our local DD dealer (Stewart Stevenson) has their building divided so that the work on trucks on the south side and "other" vehicles (mostly buses) on the north side.  I believe their rates are the same ($120 on both sides)

I am really anxious to hear what the Gates part number is.  I will be able to tell you about that hose once I get that information.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2010, 06:24:11 AM »

Our local DD shop charges about 120 an hour for buses or motorhomes. Why? Because it ties up two of their bays, and they usually stay busy all of the time. Made sense to me.

I could understand if this was the explanation.  The places I've been at don't charge extra for buses just motorhomes.  They told me it is because they have to take extra precautions to not get the motorhome interiors dirty so it takes more time.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2010, 10:49:39 AM »

I'm sure Mike would have been happier with the repair had it worked! Still pretty steep price but at $350 a mile even Nancy Pelosi would squack!!! Cheesy Cheesy
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06 Bill
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2010, 11:14:34 AM »

My 4106 has flex hoses on both top & bottom radiator connections. First set was on for 75K miles no prob. Replaced with 2ND set when installed new rad. now about 20K
miles. Number is VF 130 green stripe. BTW these hoses were (are) at least 20 years old when put on. 06 Bill PD 4106 2741 w/V730 & 871.    06 Bill
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Madmike
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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2010, 11:21:46 AM »

The hose on the bus was a 26537 Gates Flex hose. I was very old but they still make it. You can buy them at Napa or O'reilly auto parts. 
No stores stock them so they have to come out of there hub.
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« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2010, 04:22:17 PM »

Bill, I can't identify the VF 130.  I would guess that the VF stands for Vulco Flex, a name we used to use a ton of years ago.

Madmike, that is the kind of hose I really do not care for.  The fact that this hose is a green stripe construction is probably a good thing, but it still is not a very robust construction.  As I said earlier, our bus applications are not all that tough on hose (pressure and temperature are less than a car), so that probably makes it acceptable.

By far the best option is what was fabricated for you - steel or copper tubing formed to the correct shape and then connected with short straight hose.  That hose should be the wrapped construction I discussed earlier.

Running a 20 year old hose just does not make sense.  As was pointed out here, the resulting solution to the problem when on the road is many times more expensive than replacing all the hoses.  GOOD name brand hose of the correct construction should last 10 years.  Silicon hose will last longer.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
06 Bill
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2010, 03:06:33 AM »

Jim,   The VF 130 hose # was taken right off of the smooth hub section at the end of the hose. Do not know exact age but came in a box with some other stuff dated
1985. Quite dusty but still pliable. Made up a tester and applied 25 PSI bent & twisted etc. held up so am using.     06 Bill
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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2010, 05:55:20 AM »

Bill, my previous answer was not very well researched.  I took the easy way out on the VF 130 hose and did not do a search of the Gates database.  VF 130 is an obsolete number.  It crosses with Gates 26536.   That is the same type of hose that madmike listed.  It is 2 3/4 ID by 18 inches long.  Kind of interesting results from price searching.  I saw prices from a bit over $40 to well into the $80 range.

Gates has changed their numbering system a few times since I started there in 1964.  They are pretty good about crossing the old numbers with the new numbers, but you have to have their catalog or use the online system (have to login).

As I mentioned, it is not my favorite kind of hose. I am sure that is will probably do an acceptable job on your application, but it is what I call a "compromise" hose that is designed to fit a ton of applications with minimal inventory.  The construction does meet an SAE standard (SAE 20 R5 type EC) but that is a standard written around this type of hose and should not imply some sort of super hose.

I am pretty sure (99.9%) sure that you would not find this hose on an OEM application (price and durability).

As far as the hose you are using, you will probably be OK.  Depending on how it was stored, there is probably not too much damage from ozone or heat.   You have testing the pressure and looked at flexibility - good thing to do.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 07:54:35 AM »

The 26536 is an 18" hose, but you need the 26537 to give you the slack to let the radiator open up it is 32". You have to make sure that you don't let it hang into the fan though. I also noticed the price diffrence. I am going to order one from the 40.00 range and keep it as a spare as I can use it for the upper or lower in the event of an emergency. Now that i think about it the 18" would be better suited for a back up spare as the 32" would be very long for the bottom. When the guy fixed mine he used a bent muffler pipe, flaired on both ends and then attached them to two pcs of Silicone hose. It seems to be working fine and I might just keep it that away.
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2010, 08:08:42 AM »

Mike and Bill, I had not thought about the radiator movement.  I guess for that, the flex hose should be fine.  Don't think the short straight hose/pipe would work all that well,  Mike, I guess you found a way to make it work.

The prices drive me crazy.  Before I retired, I got employee prices and that was not bad.  The guys from GY and Dayco got them free Angry.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2010, 01:20:14 AM »

My, just sold, GM4106 has both of the original top and bottom brass pipes along with the straight hoses so it must allow enough flexibility for the radiator to move, although I rarely swung the radiator out.
Good luck, Sam MC8
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