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Author Topic: new tire brand selection  (Read 5063 times)
trapper
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2010, 04:27:15 PM »

I would be carful when you switch the tires around. I am sure that you already know this but you need to make sure that the tread depth is the same on the two tires on each tandum. In a best case if one tire is taller than the other it won't be for long because it will be carrying more load than the tire beside it. In the worst case the increased load may make it overheat and blowout. 
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2010, 02:39:45 AM »

I gotta ask you people with experience something about tires for our buses that kinda bothers me. Most bus people say to go with the Michelens that they are they best. Unfortunately they also seem to have the highest price tag and our tires are NOT cheep....... even the cheep ones are not cheep, additionally we need a lot of them.  From what I have read too, our tires are meant to go 700,000 in their lifespan of about 7-8 years. Most of us will only put a few thousand miles on our buses and tires a year, which adds up to maybe 10% of the miles the tires are meant for in their 7-8 years. So my question is, why not go with a cheaper tire that will never see anywhere near that kind of 700,000 mileage anyway? If the problem with the cheep tires is that they will only have half the mileage of the higher ticket ones then what is the problem? Unless I am misunderstanding something, please explain. Thank you.
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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2010, 04:49:07 AM »

I would be carful when you switch the tires around. I am sure that you already know this but you need to make sure that the tread depth is the same on the two tires on each tandum. In a best case if one tire is taller than the other it won't be for long because it will be carrying more load than the tire beside it. In the worst case the increased load may make it overheat and blowout. 

That's a really good warning and I hope Tom will think about not replacing his drive tires 2 at a time.  However that's not the reason that its a bad idea.  The real problem is that mismatched duals aren't the same diameter and therefore want to turn at different RPMs.  Obviously 2 tires on the same hub can't turn at different RPMs so one of the tires has to be constantly scrubbing which quickly turns both tires down to the same diameter.
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2010, 06:50:19 AM »

My personal feelings about Michelins is that the only thing that is better about them is that you get more money back for the casings when you send them to the recapper.  Some people swear by them but they never impressed me more than any others.  I'd suggest you find a tire man that you trust and deal with him only.  I've run Firestone and Yokohama with good success but I don't see why Toyo or Kumho wouldn't work for the few miles that are put on them over the life of the tire.
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Dennis Watson
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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2010, 10:21:53 AM »

Bob,
i'm taking 2 xze's off the front and putting them on the rear, on 1 side.  next switch, i'm putting 2 xze2's and putting them on the other side.  then next i'll be taking 2 xze2's off the front and putting them on the bogey's.  at that time, i'll have 8 xze2's.  i think i understood what you said, and that shouldn't be a problem with my method?Huh

trucktramp,
front tire blowouts are what cause most bus crashes due to equipment failure instead of driver error (yes, you could say failure to control is driver error).  i don't want a blowout, and i don't want it on a front.  that's my rational for replacing front's always.  i don't ever expect treadwear to be an issue.  i do expect scrubbing, road hazzard, curbing and sun rot to be issues.   i doubt if any tire i put on will go bald. Many of them would either not ride as well or not tolerate the real hazzards i expect to subject them to as well as i hope the Michelin's will over the next 8-10 years.  afaik, michelin's the only one with a 7 yr warranty and have twice told me they expect them to last 10 years.

if anyone can unequivocally recommend something else beside $550 Michelin's, and support it more than just a feeling, i'd be happy to spend less.  nobody has said they've had Toyo's/Bridgestone/Goodyear/Cooper for 8 years and they haven't cracked while the bus has been outside for the whole time, that the ride was great and they resisted nails, boards, and potholes for the whole time.  no one has really said why Goodyear's are junk, but i've heard TomC has lots of driving/truck experience, so i'll take his word for it. i already have Michelin's and they have performed well, but this is my first bus, so i really have no experience to compare to. 
i once had a Ford dealer pay for Michelin's on my Mustang becuase he couldn't find 4 truly round Goodrich's that didn't vibrate on it.  That's proof. 
i also don't mean to ignore anyone driving experience.  Trucktramp, if you've been driving some rig for 20 years on toyo's and kumho's or coopers, etc, and have good ride, wear, and resistance experience with one or the other, that would certainly push my thoughts toward a less expensive, not cheaper made, brand.
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Tom
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2010, 10:41:41 AM »

I have Goodyears on now. They were sold with the bus to the PO from Santa Cruz. They are now about 11 years old. The PO didnt drive the bus except about 500 miles to take it home. It sat in the open at his house in Lompoc California (mild climate with higher humidity) for about 5 years. I have put quite a few miles on the bus with the same tires on it. My maiden voyage was about 1100 miles and since then I moved, using the bus as a moving van. I moved about 400 miles into a hot desert near Death Valley. The bus has sat at my property here on the north side of my home outside unprotected for the last year. I dont remember exactly how many miles I have put on it, but will check when I get home. I made many trips across a very hot desert last year back and forth moving and it is about a 4 1/2 hour drive by car..... 100s of miles. My tires look brand new, but because of their age and the fear that they will suddenly give out on me I am changing them before anymore long trips out of town. Also my bus drove on the highways when in service so it didnt have the 55 mph tires on it.

edit: I like the ride too, but really have little or nothing to judge it against so my opinion on that shouldnt count lol
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2010, 11:02:43 AM »

Tom my coach, when I purchased it had 315/80rx22.5's and they were all Goodyears. The dates on them were 02's which I believe were used when I bought the coach and they still looked like brand new when I recently purchased my new Coopers from John. This put them at 8 years old and I believe my coach was the second vehicle they were on. All my tires were run at about 90-100lbs and showed no cracks of any kind with the exception of my tags. They showed the most wear on sidewalls with small cracks and very wavy wear on the treads.
Had I stayed in the state of Florida and drove short runs, I would not have hesitated to keep them and run them. My choice to travel more out of state forced my decision to buy new tires. After pricing Goodyears, Michelins, Toyo's, Kumo's, Bridgestones, and Continental's, I opted to go with the Cooper "RoadMaster". I compared ALL of the above in my size and load range and I just couldn't justify the extra money for seeing a name on the sidewall.

Now that I have about 1500 miles on them, I'm relaxed and feel comfortable in my choice! I paid about 2500 for 6 and keep in mind this is mounted, balanced with new stems! I took the front steer tires and wheels, mounted and rotated them to the tag axle. It rides like a dream to BTW!
 
Your price of 410.00 for goodyears seems pretty good but then add about 75.00 or more per tire for dismounting and mounting and balancing and new stems which would put you close to 500 bucks each! Then don't forget your taxes which add up quickly! I was quoted well over 500 per tire for Goodyears down here and didn't see that much difference in the actual tire!

It took about a half day to do the job and I am well pleased so far!

The Cooper RoadMaster is just as good a tire in my books as any house hold name brand!

As you might know John and his dad go thru motorhomes and buses like we go thru twenty's and they always use the Coopers! That was helpful in what sold me!

I am positive I will NEVER wear them out before they out date themselves which is what all of us will most likely do! With the economy the way it is, I DO watch what I spend these days!

Ace
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Ace Rossi
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2010, 12:06:32 PM »

purchased my new Coopers from John. I paid about 2500 for 6 and keep in mind this is mounted, balanced with new stems!
Your price of 410.00 for goodyears seems pretty good but then add about 75.00 or more per tire
The Cooper RoadMaster is just as good a tire in my books as any house hold name brand!  As you might know John and his dad go thru motorhomes and buses like we go thru twenty's and they always use the Coopers!
Ace

John always gives you great deals, Ace.  it's called quantity discount.  I think Andy's starting to think you sign his checks. Goodyear @ $410 was out the door except sales tax.  I was quoted $650 for Michelin's in Florida, and in TX, so decided to wait for Ohio, but the prices went up in May.

But thanks for all the helpful comments which i am listening to.  i really don't think these tires i have are bad, just don't want to risk a blowout on fronts.
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Tom
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trapper
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2010, 12:31:41 PM »

I own three Mack dumptrucks and one Mack lowboy tractor and trailer. We ran goodyears until about ten years ago when we noticed that we weren't getting as many miles out of a set of tires as we used to and we also couldn't keep the fronts from bumping. We always balanced them with the balancing powder and kept the trucks in alignment. We switched to michelins on the advise of a logger and have never changed. They are a little more expensive but we get more miles and get a better ride. Changing tires cost a lot of money in labor and down time.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2010, 12:56:37 PM »

Tom,
What Ace said about John and his dad using Coopers is an awesome endorsement for them.
We haven't had any local "Cooper" dealers in our around Union City for ages, or I would probably use them.  (Wynn & John Silver have owned more buses than anyone else I have personally met! Around 100 units at one time!)
FWIW Coopers used to be made by General Tire (my dad worked in maintenance for them in Mayfield,m KY for 19 yrs before they closed the plant) which "Continental Tire" bought out in 1987.

Now not that we know ANYTHING at all about buses or tires, but we have always run Kumho's since the very first set I bought for the first bus we started with in 2004!
That bus was sold later and the buyer thought 5 grand was too much $ for 8 polished aluminum rims w/ almost new tires on them so I kept them. Just 2 months ago I put those wheels/tires on the bus we just re-furbed and put on the road rides and drives great!

Now while I respect TomC's experience and opinion I have a difference of opinion on Michelin tires.
When I was trucking back in the '90's I had some issues with Michelin tires that came new on several new trucks I bought. Michelin would not stand behind their own warranty and gave me the complete run around for months on end (about 12 of 'em!). After that anytime I bought anything that came with Michelin's on it I would "have them replaced or the deal was off!" (just my personal opinion and experience, but what good is a 7 yr warranty if they won't honor it?)

Goodyear; we have a Goodyear plant in Union City, and just listening to the people that work there telling me the things that go on there make me not want any of those tires on my buses!
Back the week before our fine president's inauguration, the former owner of the company we bought out in February of the same year had me have some Goodyear G395's he'd bought somewhere on the road put on for him.   (same bus & steer tires it had on it, that I had down @ Arcadia)
Less that a yr later one of those blew out the inner side wall while dad was hauling people in it.
This is 4 months later and I'm still having trouble finding a Goodyear dealer who will honor the warranty on it "because we didn't buy it from them!"

So Tom as you can see the good, bad and ugly of it is that some have good, some have bad, but we all have different experiences! Wink\
Grin  BK  Grin

My main thing is why pay extra for a name and warranty, if they are known not to stand behind them?
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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2010, 09:55:54 PM »

John Ed, I happen to live in probably the most ethnically diverse country in the world, Canada. We have chosen to take it to a higher level and call people by more politically correct names such as; Asian, South asian, African Americans, Native Americans, First Nations, Canadians, Americans, etc. Although it may be fine to use those terms in your corner of the world, when you post to this board you are posting to the world and I find it offensive that those terms are used.       

Gerry.
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2010, 12:28:44 AM »

Whats your point?
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2010, 05:13:54 AM »

No dog in this fight but I think the point he's trying to get across is, your slang terms are not welcome here nore needed regardless if YOUR family approves of them! Besides, all this has nothing to do with tires, so back to the topic!


Moderator note:  Very well said.  In response to several complaints I have removed the terms from this thread and am noting it here rather than a new post to minimize the distraction from the thread topic.  As Ace said, let's stay on the foucs of this interesting tire related topic.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 07:06:09 AM by HighTechRedneck » Logged

Ace Rossi
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2010, 05:55:00 AM »

Bob,
i'm taking 2 xze's off the front and putting them on the rear, on 1 side.  next switch, i'm putting 2 xze2's and putting them on the other side.  then next i'll be taking 2 xze2's off the front and putting them on the bogey's.  at that time, i'll have 8 xze2's.  i think i understood what you said, and that shouldn't be a problem with my method?Huh

trucktramp,
front tire blowouts are what cause most bus crashes due to equipment failure instead of driver error (yes, you could say failure to control is driver error).  i don't want a blowout, and i don't want it on a front.  that's my rational for replacing front's always.  i don't ever expect treadwear to be an issue.  i do expect scrubbing, road hazzard, curbing and sun rot to be issues.   i doubt if any tire i put on will go bald. Many of them would either not ride as well or not tolerate the real hazzards i expect to subject them to as well as i hope the Michelin's will over the next 8-10 years.  afaik, michelin's the only one with a 7 yr warranty and have twice told me they expect them to last 10 years.

if anyone can unequivocally recommend something else beside $550 Michelin's, and support it more than just a feeling, i'd be happy to spend less.  nobody has said they've had Toyo's/Bridgestone/Goodyear/Cooper for 8 years and they haven't cracked while the bus has been outside for the whole time, that the ride was great and they resisted nails, boards, and potholes for the whole time.  no one has really said why Goodyear's are junk, but i've heard TomC has lots of driving/truck experience, so i'll take his word for it. i already have Michelin's and they have performed well, but this is my first bus, so i really have no experience to compare to. 
i once had a Ford dealer pay for Michelin's on my Mustang becuase he couldn't find 4 truly round Goodrich's that didn't vibrate on it.  That's proof. 
i also don't mean to ignore anyone driving experience.  Trucktramp, if you've been driving some rig for 20 years on toyo's and kumho's or coopers, etc, and have good ride, wear, and resistance experience with one or the other, that would certainly push my thoughts toward a less expensive, not cheaper made, brand.
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Dennis Watson
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2010, 06:20:57 AM »


I understand the fear of steer tire blow outs and crashes.  I always kept the best rubber on my steer axle and never had an issue even running in and out of steel mills and scrap yards.  Flats do happen even with the best tire care (unless you choose to run solid tires but this is not an option for on road use).  If you loose a steer tire while traveling on the roadway at speed, you should know how to react to avoid crashes.  I think that one of the tire mfg. has instructions for what to do.

I can honestly say that I never had any tires last for 8-10 yrs on my truck because they were long past worn out.  For what it's worth, I can say that I have seen some 25 yr old casings on rail container chassis that were still going down the road  but this was many yrs ago and don't remember who made the casings.

Talk to the small fleet owners.  They know what works for them and they don't get the big deals that the big guys get because they are not buying tires by the trailer load.  Guys like BK can tell you what brands they will never buy again even if they were free and which tires they will spec on every new purchase.  Tires are a big chunk of money but peace of mind has a cost too.  Get the rubber that you are happy with but remember a warranty is only if the company stands behind the product.

Yes, I have been driving for better than 25 yrs.  That was the first career.  Now I am a registered nurse (much better hours) but I can still float the gears on a 13 speed or (for the old timers) know how to shift 5+3, 4+4, etc. gearboxes.
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Dennis Watson
KB8KNP
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