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Author Topic: OT - Why the heck is diesel going up and gasoline down?  (Read 1612 times)
belfert
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« on: August 11, 2006, 05:36:02 PM »

I understand fuel prices are high and accept that they are high due to demand and high oil prices.  What really bothers is gasoline price going down quickly, yet diesel prices are going up just as quickly.  Why are diesel prices skyrocketing compared to gasoline prices?

In the past week, gasoline prices here have gone down about 20 cents, yet diesel prices have gone up 10 cents in the past week.  This means diesel prices are now at least 25 cents higher than gasoline.  In the past two weeks, gasoline and diesel had been the same price at one station.

Is the diesel shortage in Colorado and Wyoming affecting prices here in Minnesota, almost 1000 miles away?  My tank is down at least 50 gallons, and I've considered filling now to hedge against even higher prices, but I decided saving $5 or whatever isn't worth the hassle and fuel burnt just to go to the station.

Brian Elfert
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Hartley
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2006, 05:47:26 PM »

Diesel sits in the tanks longer so takes longer for drops in price at wholesale to reflect at retail.

Plus the added advantage is that the dealers know you just can't find diesel at every station so they
can inflate it's price and get away with it.

BTW... That "Premium" diesel is exactly the same as the "Truck" diesel just a lot more profit to the sellers.

It's all a ripoff.... I just gave up the other day and am now running P70 in my MC9 and P100 in my Isuzu Truck.

( Ok.......Huh? )

P100 is 100% Plant Oils ( Veggie oil, Used, Filtered )......

My Isuzu has been running it for almost 1000 miles now with no ill effects (yet)... ( P100 )

I have not found any problem on the Detroit 6V92TA ( MUI ) yet and it starts righ up as does my Kubota powered
Onan 10kw Diesel Generator at the 70% Veggie blend. Sure smells different and much better too.

I have over 300 running hours on my Kubota D950 powered generator ( test rig ) using P100 without preheaters!
No problems and no black soot either!
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belfert
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2006, 06:47:23 PM »

Plus the added advantage is that the dealers know you just can't find diesel at every station so they
can inflate it's price and get away with it.

BTW... That "Premium" diesel is exactly the same as the "Truck" diesel just a lot more profit to the sellers.

I would say that at least every second or third station around here has diesel.  Just about every station of the major chains has diesel fuel.  About the only stations that don't do diesel are the non-chain discount gas stations.

The local refinery here makes a premium diesel that really is better.  Higher cetane and my TDI powered car gets better mileage consistently.  The good thing is the station I buy the premium diesel at only sells the premium and is always 5 to 10 cents less expensive than others.

Brian Elfert
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TomC
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2006, 09:08:42 PM »

Our Diesel has been 500ppm (parts per million) sulphur content.  By the end of September, the refineries have to be making the 15ppm ultra low sulphur Diesel so by the mandated Jan 1, 2007, the refineries, oil lines, tanks, gas stations, etc. will be flushed out of the old 500ppm and only have the 15ppm fuel available.  As always, when you refine a product more to remove something, in this case sulphur, it costs more to refine the product.  What we are seeing is the ramp up to the ultra low sulphur fuel.  At least here in Calif, the Diesel pumps have tags on them saying whether they are low sulphur 500ppm, or the new ultra low sulphur at 15ppm.  Considering that all trucks, some cars, most boats, trains, airplanes (kerosene), off road equipment, except for gasoline powered cars run on Diesel, it is just getting to be harder to find the refined product to keep everyone running.  And now with the 15ppm Diesel finally being brought into exsistence, you're going to see an influx of Diesel powered cars since the ultra low sulphur Diesel fuel allows the engines to come up to the strict air polution standards.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2006, 05:26:12 PM »

Brian the above answers are all good and true! However there is one simple fact that always has and always will be the same! Big Trucks use diesel, and have to have it! There fore as long as they can get away with it the oil companies will exploit this issue and keep gouging as much as they can as long as they can ! Only after enough  pressure is put on the politicians from the big trucking firms,and orginations will they publicly say something about the need to do something about it! At which time the oil companies will quietly and quickly start lowering the prices a little bit, so as to quiet everybody down which makes the politicians happy and all is forgotten again ! Until the next time they figure out a way to start gouging us again! And each time they gouge us they only slightly lower it which means in the end they're still winning while we are still paying outragous prices! I ain't no politician and have no desire to be, but given the chance I'd do a whole lota chang'n on capitol hill! But thats another issue and I don't even wanna get started there!!! BK  Grin


Smiley Wink Cheesy It's gonna be a Blast at the "TN Fall Bus Bash" at Knuckle's check out the "TN Fall Bus Bash" Thread to see what all we got planned! Grin Shocked Roll Eyes
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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Devin & Amy
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2006, 05:29:55 PM »

Hi all,

When I was a kid (1970's)I recall that the truckers had a shutdown/boycott on the interstate system. wasn't that to protest the price of fuel?
If the truckers stop, so does everything!

Devin
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Devin, Amy, and the kids!!
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2006, 05:53:44 PM »

Hi all,
When I was a kid (1970's)I recall that the truckers had a shutdown/boycott on the interstate system. wasn't that to protest the price of fuel?
If the truckers stop, so does everything!
Devin

Hi Devin,

Yes I too remember that shut down in the 70's ! And when I was trucking we tried to do it again in the late 90's but you can't get anyone to stick together anymore ! All the O/O's say "I can't shut this rig down, I have payments to make!" , the company drivers driving for the mega fleets "say I can't shut this truck down they'lll fire me! & have some foriegner here to drive the truck away tomarrow!", The Mega Fleets say "we can't shut these trucks down all the little fleets will keep running and take over our territory", and the Little Fleets say "we can't shut down, because all the mega fleets will keep running and take over the few contracts they don't already have!".  Which are all true and I do understand, but the shutdown is not going to last a month, or even a week, it would surprise me if it lasted more than a day two at the most! Then everybody from you and me all the way to the President will be screaming hey listen get those trucks moving, we gotta have those products ! Then and only then would things get better for #1 the trucking industry because they'd have those in powers attention to get some of the things they need! # 2 the public as we would benefit from the lower fuel prices we'd receive. And # 3 the drivers themselves because they could get the pay they deserve, time off when they are promised time off, better relations with the public, and etc.
What my idea is if you shut down the fuel tankers the rest will stop like it or not! One day and the gubberment will be forced to listen to the demands of the trucking industry & the public at the same time! Just my opinion which with $3.00 won't even buy you a gallon of diesel most places now days!
BK  Grin

  Smiley Wink Cheesy It's gonna be a Blast at the "TN Fall Bus Bash" at Knuckle's check out the "TN Fall Bus Bash" Thread to see what all we got planned! Grin Shocked Roll Eyes
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2006, 06:24:39 PM »

This page from the DOE has links to a lot of interesting information on both diesel and gasonline.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
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belfert
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2006, 07:39:05 AM »

Our Diesel has been 500ppm (parts per million) sulphur content.  By the end of September, the refineries have to be making the 15ppm ultra low sulphur Diesel so by the mandated Jan 1, 2007, the refineries, oil lines, tanks, gas stations, etc. will be flushed out of the old 500ppm and only have the 15ppm fuel available.  As always, when you refine a product more to remove something, in this case sulphur, it costs more to refine the product.  What we are seeing is the ramp up to the ultra low sulphur fuel.  At least here in Calif, the Diesel pumps have tags on them saying whether they are low sulphur 500ppm, or the new ultra low sulphur at 15ppm.  Considering that all trucks, some cars, most boats, trains, airplanes (kerosene), off road equipment, except for gasoline powered cars run on Diesel, it is just getting to be harder to find the refined product to keep everyone running.  And now with the 15ppm Diesel finally being brought into exsistence, you're going to see an influx of Diesel powered cars since the ultra low sulphur Diesel fuel allows the engines to come up to the strict air polution standards.  Good Luck, TomC

Refineries have been required to be producing something like 90% of diesel as ULSD for a month or two now.  We should have been seeing higher diesel prices for a while now if ULSD was the primary factor.  They are closing and cleaning out storage tanks for ULSD, so the supply may be limited a bit as that occurs.  ULSD is required to be sold at all retailers on Oct 15th I believe.  All diesel at the pump should be ULSD these days unless the retailer has old fuel that was refined before June.  It just won't meet the 15 PPM limit until the pipelines and tanks are all cleaned of the residual sulphur from the old fuel.

I wonder if diesel cars and SUVs will really take off with the motors costing more and diesel selling for more than gasoline these days.  Diesel cars will mean more demand and even higher prices.

I would hope all the money refineries spent on ULSD also went for expanding diesel capacity.  One local refinery here spent $450 million gearing up for ULSD.

Brian Elfert

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